The Venus Project and The Zeitgeist Movement is ‘splitting up’.

Personally, I think this is a good thing. Ever since I heard about The Venus Project (TVP), The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM) and a Resource Based Economy (RBE), I thought that TZM should not be “the activist arm” of TVP. Rather, TZM  should be “the activist arm” of a Resource Based Economy.

A resource based economy can be many things, and The Venus Project holds but one of these solutions. The notion of RBE can not be defined by a single organization alone, like TVP or TZM. RBE has to be an ‘open system’, where all the people of this planet has to contribute. And as far as I am concerned, RBE is still a concept that has to be developed and take root deep in the mind of Humanity. Just like the notion of money and ownership is rooted in the mind of humanity now, the notion of a money- and propertyless society has to replace the old notion and become even deeper rooted. And this has to happen through the spreading of information through all possible channels.

TVP has a lot of good drawings and suggestions for new design and technology, but I feel they are lacking somewhat in understanding humans. I agree with many things that Mr. Jacque Fresco says, but I also disagree with a few.

RBE is a concept that has to take root in the mind of humanity, and the main aspect of it is not TVP and its drawings, it is the notion of a money- and propertyless society where we share and give instead of trade, buy and sell. This is the core of RBE. Sharing and giving. No matter how much we automate things or how many machines we have, this has to be and is the core of a resource based economy. Actually, it has nothing to do with technology, but everything to do with our mindset and values, and how we see the world. Any technological development and how we use technology will come as a result of this mindset. Actually, I do think that TVP have the same view. It is only that it tends to get a focus on machines and technology instead of humans and values.

The Venus Project has undoubtedly added valuable designs and thoughts to the pool of the knowledge of Mankind. Knowledge that shall and will be utilized in all ways possible. There is no doubt about that. But Jacque Fresco says outright that ‘we can’t create this new world without TVP’, which is a huge mistake. To rely on one person’s thoughts and designs for the whole planet is not only foolish, but impossible. There are too many creative and intelligent beings on this planet for this to happen. Not to speak of too many different preferences and cultures.

I think it is good that The Zeitgeist Movement is now on it’s own, and realizes that it is a ‘resource based economy’ that is the ‘umbrella term’, not ‘The Venus Project’. RBE can come in many different shapes and forms, not only TVP’s form. We can even have RBE without any new technology, with old wooden houses and horses and carts, which is what we actually had. In old times, there were many societies based on sharing and giving in stead of trading with each other. And the land was not owned by anyone. As said, RBE is not really about technology, but our mindset. Yes, technology will evolve, and we will use it, but technology is not the main point. Sharing, giving and collaborating freely is the point. A money- and propertyless economy is the point. A caring and compassionate society is the point.

TVP think that ‘everything has a technical solution’, and many things do, but then they tend to forget that Humans are not ‘technical solutions’. Well, our bodies are somewhat ‘technical’, but Humans also have feelings, thoughts and aspirations of their own. Humans has to realize for themselves this new world. Humans can not be told ‘this is the way things are, no go and do it!’. No, humans has to get their own experiences, and the mindset they are in has to change gradually. Unless the total mindset of Humanity changes away from trading, ownership and individual power towards sharing, collaboration and common strength, we will not get a resource based economy or anything like it on this planet. No matter how technologically developed we are.

One thing that seem totally absent in TVP is the understanding of consciousness.  How everything is connected, where the Life Force comes from, what thoughts really are, what mind is, what the soul is, why we are here and what our purpose really is. They seem to believe that absolutely everything we do is based on ‘conditioning by society’. Of course we get conditioned by society, but that doesn’t explain everything. One can ask ‘what conditions society’? Where does it all start?

Why does Mr. Fresco do what he does? Is it only conditioning? Then why didn’t his brother, or someone with similar ‘conditioning’ do what Fresco does? He clearly tells us that he went against the current in his young days. He didn’t want to stand up and sing the american national anthem because he believed in the whole world as our common land, not only USA. Now, if everyone around him was conditioned to one thing, why did he go the other way?

So, where did it come from, if not his conditioning? His DNA? It is now shown that also the DNA is not constant, but does change in regards to, yes, conditioning. But still, conditioning doesn’t explain all behavior. Personally, I believe that this ‘third element’, the element that is is not heritage (DNA), and not conditioning, is the element that comes with us when we are born. It is a personality and aspirations we bring with our consciousness from life to life.

Personally, I believe that we are consciousness, that everything is consciousness, that this world is created out of our thoughts, that the fear and the EGO is the basic things that are stopping us from reaching our goals, and that Love, Joy, Bliss and positive feelings will create positive results in this world. And that the search for Fulfillment is what is driving us to do the things we do. And this fulfillment is based on something invisible. Something that is inherent in us when we are born.

To me these questions are CRUCIAL to a Resource Based Economy. Because if we don’t have money or trade or barter, we would have to think totally different in terms of motivation. TVP’s motivation seems to be to eradicate war, pollution, natural disasters, etc. etc., which is all good, of course. But then what? What would be the meaning of life when we have eradicated all of that? TVP doesn’t seem to have an answer for this other than that ‘there will always be new problems to solve’. This might be well and good for TVP, but not all the world’s people, and certainly not me. I need deeper answers and reasons to live.

The struggle we have on this planet today, is not technological or scientific, it is a struggle of the EGO. We have to leave our egos behind to get this new world, RBE or whatever you want to call the ‘system’. In any case, a new ‘system’ alone can not save us, we have to bring with us the realization that ‘we are all one’. I am not saying that we can get rid of our egos completely. No, we only have to be aware of them, understand them and not let our words and actions be guided by them. Being guided by the ego is being guided by fear. Instead we have to look to Love and Peace in our guidance. Sounds like cliche’s, and they are. But there’s a reason why things become cliche’s, and that’s because cliches tend to be true.

I’ve criticized TVP more than TZM here for a reason. TZM was rightly enough initiated by Peter Joseph, but now TZM consists of a conglomerate of chapters and groups all over the planet, with many working diligently to spread awareness about RBE. This is not only the way it should be, but the only way it can be if this information is to reach any significant proportion of the population of this globe. Remember that not many people had heard about TVP before PJ made his films and TZM was started.

TVP, it seems to me, still consists basically of two persons holding the reins tight, not to let anyone interpret any of their information in their own way. They obviously also want the information to be spread across the globe, but seem to be so protective about their work that they won’t let anyone one else touch it without their approval. I understand that when someone has spent their life on designing so much houses, buildings, transportation, cities and more, credit is wanted, and a say in the building as well. But they need to let go of some control if they want their creations to see the light of day. The blueprints can be licensed out to contractors and countries around the world right now, and I am sure many would be interested in TVPs designs if they only let them out. There are many ways to do things, not only one.

I believe that the people of TVP are most sympathetic, intelligent and creative people, and that what they have done is nothing but incredible. And I believe they mean only well. I owe TVP all credit for putting me on the track of a resource based economy. I would like nothing better than to see this world become reality, but I hope and believe that all of us will create it together. That there will be room for many people’s designs and plans, and that we can and will have an open and fruitful communication and collaboration in creating this new society, where The Zeitgeist Movement still works to raise awareness about RBE, get people to think, inform and educate, while The Venus Project does the same, each in their own way, but towards our common goal.

Here are some links about what I think TVP is lacking in their thoughts about this new world:

The Moneyless Manifesto

Peerconomy

The Wealth of Networks

The Commoner

 

 

95 Responses to The Venus Project and The Zeitgeist Movement splitting up

  1. Emmanuel says:

    Wow great post I always loved TVP and felt something was missing in it, but I think you hit it right on the button. Thanks

  2. Selim says:

    If you are searching for the meaning of life just live it. TVP is just a new platform a new way of living. It does not need to find meanings to your life but solutions to most of the problems. Mankind has to find their own meaning.

  3. Aryan says:

    After reading though all these posts , the following ideas came to mind:

    1/ The TVP and TZM separated for the same reason the RBE will have difficulty being adopted and implemented on a global scale. The Resistance to change of ones preferences (ego,beliefs,habits,resources) resulting from the FEAR of loss mainly.

    2/ TZM is a social movement that believes in RBE. The challenge is to gather sufficient (key) or critical mass support of THEIR BELIEF SET for the development and creation of an RBE

    3/ TVP is an Infrastructural Design and Development Plan for an RBE. Their challenge is to gather sufficient (key) or critical mass support for the adoption of THEIR IMPLEMENTATION PLANS for the development and creation of an RBE.

    4/ The need to examine and use history as a guide to determine: perhaps stories such as the lost city of atlantis or the tower of babel may also ring a few bells. ( to avoid making similar mistakes)

    5/ Will “the powers that be” sit back, relax and allow their IDENTITY (ego,beliefs,habits, resources) to be taken away from them? Depend on how it happens, this is where strategy comes into play :) remember keyword is IDENTITY! So how do they want to be remembered ? As Creators (saviors, heroes) or Destroyers (greedy, power hungry, inhumane beings) ?

    6/ Any such movement will need to thoroughly and scientifically investigate, employ and advocate optimal socioeconomic principles and practices , and the various aspects of these systems that have proven to work in the past (within various culture/context), and place emphasis on WHY they persisted, if they are still THRIVING, or on what need to be done if they are not ( NB: emphasis should be FOCUSED ON BUILDING THE NEW ( or reinforcing what works) , as opposed to destroying the old, which would be much more costly in many respects, and as the old will eventually adapt or become obsolete and perish)

    7/ RBE should be advocated for by organizations that are exemplary; they should allow ALL individual members who possess demonstrated ability and skills, to lead and/or participate in the creation and development of the belief set and implementation plans, to do so otherwise the organization will suffer from the same problems they are trying to solve. THIS MINIMIZES THE PROBABILITY THAT ANY ONE INDIVIDUAL MEMBER (e.g leader) BECOMES A PARTICULAR TARGET BY DETRACTORS, due to their perceived value to the movement’s success ( Assassination would eventually become obsolete )

    8/ The implementation of a RBE, be it using TVP or some variant, has to Start SMALL and NOW to help attract more support (pilot projects in e.g Households, villages, communities, cities, countries), and go viral across the globe as it catches on.

    my 8 cents

    • F Lee Day says:

      Regarding your key points, have you heard of and considered the Anonymous movement proposal to fold TVP & TZM (and all other related activist movements approached as well) into theirs for maximum broad-based effort under a single banner? All-inclusive, open, and leaderless, any individual or group freely contributes their own thing toward, and as part of, the ultimate goal of a global society naturally organized in self-governance & economy. Thereby, replacing the old ways is multifaceted, not contrived and competing programs. Being sensationalist news, we only hear about Anonymous as terrorist hackers and violent revolutionaries out to punish and overthrow any system or person in the way of our goals, but members are not required to “officially” join nor subscribe to a constitution. The vast majority of “self-professed members” are non-violent, don’t know how to hack, but, for examples, share ideas as you and I have, or rally with signs, marches, or publicly speak out against the growing tyranny in surveillance and governance by billionaires and corporations while offering better solutions. In nature, there’s a place for every type contributing to its interdependent organism, except what proves harmful to it is not adapting to it and cannot long survive. Each practicing what he/she preaches is the simplest, most natural, functional, efficient, and fastest way to alter the whole. Predator and prey somehow always find their own balance and evolve since nature’s chaos is her order. Close up, you see chaotic horror, yet panning back, you see the whole as perfectly ordered ecology of an interdependent organism both changing and maintaining itself.

    • Christin says:

      1/ Yep, looks that way.
      2/ Yes, except that TZM’s belief set is based on reason, scientific methodology, and scientific evidence, which turns it into a little more than belief (if done correctly).
      3/ Yep, except they don’t make this plan available to the public. Just its core concepts.
      4/ Absolutely, we should search history for as much insight on human societies as possible, but we should also be aware of the conditions under which those societies were formed/thrived and how that may have affected its outcome.
      5/ Probably not. That’s why strategic planning is a good idea, and why #7 is important. It’s also another reason it’s good that the idea of RBE permeates through several organizations.
      6/ How do you suggest we investigate these things? I think we’ve already started experimenting…
      7/ You betcha!
      8/ You are absolutely correct. Start small, right now. This is why I love Transition Towns. We also need to support each others efforts regardless of the organization we belong to, or ideology we prescribe to…

  4. Logic says:

    Is anyone else interested in the zeitgeist movement also as interested in transhumanism as I am? Harald, you say that your critical question is what will motivate people? I would like to suggest a potential path. If you think of the mind aka conciousness as software and the brain as biology’s computer, the ” uploading ” idea perpetuated by Ray Kurzweil and the like seems a lot more palatable to me. The motivation for a resource based economy? Singularity perhaps. Or immortality, either nonbiologically or biologically by means of extremely advanced medicine. A resource based economy will inevitably lead to faster development of technology, right? If we really don’t hold back amazing things will happen. Your motivation? Watch a species develop for a million years, play with biology for centuries and create amazing creatures like unicorns or dragons, or go explore the cosmos. Maybe all of the above. I think of myself as a universal observer. I don’t have any one purpose and I’m not always passive, I act when logically pertinent and in a logical manner. Imagine watching our species develop up the classes of societies that michiu kaku (spelling?) Has suggested. Think about it. The possibilities are infinite.

    • F Lee Day says:

      All the ideas put forth are fascinating and remind me of Star Trek’s Federation economy as described by Captain Jean-Luc Picard in “The Next Generation.” Although I agree these things would be wonderful, all signs scientists are warning us currently exist indicate we don’t have time to wait for humanity to drop out of the old paradigms to adopt the new. Particularly because those with power never just give it up, and they typically don’t care about the consequences if they don’t. I’ve given a lot of thought to it but can’t come up with any sensible idea of how to force the issue in time. Emperor Napoleon immediately following the Bastille slaughter and continuation of French aristocracy shows violent uprising doesn’t solve the problem. It’s obvious that working within the system won’t work. And as “Zeitgeist Addendum” declared, everything is set up to disallow any advancements which might threaten the position and interests of the ruling wealthy and corporate elite. This is the first and foremost problem to be solved before we can begin developing a RBE, and it must be done before collapse of civilization and exhaustion and/or destruction of sufficient natural resources.

  5. Corey says:

    You make some valid points. Only I disagree on your view of TVP, and the RBE. Allow me to elaborate:

    First you say that we can achieve RBE without tech, which is absolutely false. To explain further, you say that we have lived in the past without technology, and just the mindset to “give, and share”. The only problem is that back then, we didn’t have 7 billion people in the world, and heading for almost double that in the next 50 years.

    Jacque takes this into account, he uses technology to increase the output of farms, factories, power plants, ets. so that everyone can have the necessities. If we just had a mindset, this would not be possible.

    Second you say that TVP cannot do this alone, in a reply to a comment, you say it would be tyranny of one organization. The problem with that is, TVP is not one organization. It is a movement, a collection of ideas already, TVP IS open-source as you say. TVP is a banner for the people supporting RBE to march under.

    I feel that separating TVP from TZM only makes both weaker, and makes the people supporting RBE segregated. Both must be united in order to be “open-source”. In fact, other organizations, businesses, ets. should join, pool ideas, fund, ets. TVP and TZM need to reach out to top professionals in technical fields, they need to reach out to celebrities, particularly those in the talk show industry.

    These movements have a long way to go before the majority of the population of the world accept them. Separating makes them weaker, at a crucial time.

    Those are my thoughts on the matter anyway.

    -Cheers

    • Harald Sandø says:

      Hi, thanks for you comment! I think you’ve misunderstood my thoughts about RBE a bit. I don’t say we can ‘achieve’ RBE without technology. I say that it is our MINDSET that has to be the basis for RBE, and that there have been many ‘RBE’ societies before, and even are today. A farming society 300 years ago was basically a RBE society, as they got their food and what they needed more or less directly from the natural resources around them. And they shared with each other in a very large degree without money. It was basically only the ‘rich’ people in the cities that used money in those times. There are still societies like that today in India and Africa, for instance. They don’t call themselves ‘RBE’, though.

      And when it comes to technology and RBE, we don’t need any more technology than what we already have to efficiently feed the whole world’s population. There is produced enough food today to feed 11 billion people, but half of that is wasted, thrown away. Of course, a lot of that food is produced with non-sustainable methods, including GMO, chemical fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, overfishing and polluting methods. We have more than enough output, but with the wrong methods.

      Why do we have the wrong methods? BECAUSE OF THE MONETARY PROFIT BASED MINDSET. That’s why. And it is this mindset that has to change before the methods and the technology can change. If this mindset doesn’t change, it doesn’t matter if the technology changes as no one will use the new technology. The mindset has to change into a ‘resource based’ mindset, with the understanding that ‘when we share, everyone get’s more’. Only after it has done that, will the methods change. The methods that are in use today are there to maximize profit, not to provide food to the world in the most sustainable way, which again is there due to the monetary MINDSET. We already have all the technology needed (as TVP also points out) to sustainably provide abundance for everyone, what is lacking is the right MINDSET.

      I can not see how TVP is a ‘movement’. When I go into the TVP website to ‘about’, I see only two videos with two big faces; Jaques Fresco and Roxanne Meadows. Great people, but a ‘movement’?

      Why must TVP and TZM be united to be ‘open source’? I can’t see that. To me ‘open source’ has nothing to do with everyone being united, but everything to do with sharing freely all relevant information, which I can’t see TVP doing. On the contrary, they share only bits and pieces. Had it been truly open source, JF would have shared all his blueprints for all his relevant inventions, so that others could have used them freely and also improved upon them for everyone’s benefit. TVP is explicitly not doing this. I know JF and RM personally, and I have asked them. Their answer is that they don’t believe that just ‘anyone’ can create the ‘TVP world’, it has to be them having total control, and they won’t share the blueprints since of course they then will loose control. This is what they have said, almost word for word. TVP is not open source. Unfortunately.

      Another relevant project that IS open source is this: opensourceecology.org/. I have urged TVP to think more in this direction, but they don’t listen. Maybe you have more luck. JF won’t live forever, and for the TVP designs to ever see the light of day, open sourcing it is the only solution as far as I can see. After all, TVP is the first and foremost advocator of RBE. Them not being open source is really a contradiction in terms.

      • Corey says:

        I agree with the mindset, current mindset definitely has to be thrown out. It’s destructive, immature, and favors narcissism & greed.

        However I think that Jacque & Roxanne are only two people, true that they are not open source enough, but I think they cannot advertise well enough being just two of them. That is why they should not have separated from TZM, because TZM had the word of mouth, TVP has the technology, and knowledge.

        You see, I was wrong to say that TVP is a “movement”, because they aren’t, they are a project just as the name implies. TZM is for spreading the word, TVP is for building the cities, robots, ets. That being said, my next sentence will make more sense.

        TVP is NOT for spreading the word, or getting members. It IS for educating people (please refer to the page of TVP titled “what can I do?”), and for getting engineers & technicians for TVP (see the page titled “Scientific & Technical Database”).

        Now I also said it was open-source, which I really wish it was, if what you pointed out is actual fact. Than I am a bit disappointed. However his designs are absolutely still there, and many of his book explain in detail how they work, and their purpose. You must understand his reasons for hesitation though, he worked his whole life on these projects, and does not want a big corporation to pick up his open-source blueprints, and sell them. If you have ever heard Jacque Fresco talk about the time when he worked at an airplane factory, you will know how much he hate’s other people selling his work for profit. Allowing corporations to do so, would be contradictory to TVP & TZM cause, and would hinder it’s progress.

        -Cheers

    • jim barnard says:

      HI Corey and Harold,

      The last couple of posts throw around some world population projection numbers for 50 years out. I saw 7 billion now dubbling to 14 billion…. also saw 11 billion in reference to food resources.

      I wanted to suggest another view. Hans Rosling is professor of World Health at Karolinska Institute in Stockholm. He is popular on the TED talk circuit and depending on which TED talk you listen to his world population figure in 2050 is projected to be 9 or 10 billion and then stops… I mean it STOPS there.

      The link below is Rosling’s TED talk using simple props (from IKEA) to make his case. There are some notable “ifs” in his scenario, but it is definitely worth having that lower number in our conciousness, even more importantly understaning how to achieve it. It is not obvious that child survival rate is the key factor.

      Enjoy! Rosling’s presentation style is quite charming.

      www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTznEIZRkLg
      (approximately 10 minutes)

      Fondly,
      Jim

      • Harald Sandø says:

        Hello Jim. Yes, very cool video. Have not seen it before, but heard the same projections. 11 billion, by the way, is not a projection, but the amount of people the food production in the world TODAY could have fed, had everything been used. This number is from Oxfam.

        Speaking of over population, I also believe that this is nothing to worry about when seen in the light of Rosling’s projections. But also because of the fact that there is more than enough fertile land for everyone on this planet, even if population would reach 20 billion.

        • Corey says:

          Indeed, plus if all resources and scientific mind-power is used exclusively on science, we could EASILY be colonizing Mars by 2020 :-D

        • Christin says:

          “There is more than enough fertile land for everyone on this planet…”
          That’s absolutely true, unless we, as a species, continue our current behaviors for the next 20 years, then we might have a lot less land to grow on. Its not just fertility, we also need the correct temperatures on the fertile land to continue to produce vegetation we can digest. The Philippines’ agricultural crop yields are already being affected by this, and their government is already importing crops based on the predictions of climate scientists so that their people won’t starve.

          Just pointing out that there is some urgency to the situation.

  6. Sheryl says:

    Really if these groups can’t stick together. How the heck are 7 billion people going to.

    • glamfish says:

      It is good that they didn’t stick together, because no one ‘organization’ can change the world. True change comes from people coming together and making change without any top down approach with leaders telling people what to do. Any hierarchical organization will always suffer from top down measures that can never understand the true needs of any locality. Only people can know that. What TVP does wrong is to not trust people to be able to do it themselves and build societies themselves based on shared knowledge.

      If the people can’t build their societies, who can? Certainly not any ‘leaders’. So, it is good ‘organizations’ doesn’t stick together. What we need is knowledge, knowledge, knowledge and imagination, fantasy and trust in each other and in our skills. ‘Organizations’ too often takes away that trust and puts it with the ‘leaders’ on the top. No, we have to trust ourselves and each other. WE have to build our new world where we are. No ‘TVP’ or ‘TZM’ or any other organization. Sure, if we find some of the TVP knowledge and/or design desirable we can use it. But if we don’t want to live in sterile and uniform cities, we don’t have to.

  7. It’s probably for the best. But I do think that Jacque and the Venus Project are going in the right direction. Does anyone know of any alternatives for an RBE to the Venus Project? Besides just living like cavemen? Because honestly, that will just be moving backwards, and then eventually lead to the same place we are now, financially.

    • glamfish says:

      If TVP is our only alternative, it would be a tyranny, as a true open source free society would utilize many types of designs and ideas, and we would all work together to create the best world for us all. TVP certainly have many interesting designs and ideas, but to think that they have the ‘only solution’ would be no better than what religious followers has done for millennia.

      So the ‘alternative’ for RBE is all around us, everywhere, constantly developing. In open source software (like Linux), open source information (like Wikipedia), volunteering, free giving and receiving, scientist who don’t want to patent their inventions, freecycle with sharing of items, Open Source Ecology with free sharing of city design machines, Thingiverse with free sharing of 3D printing objects, freeconomy with free sharing of skills and more. And in addition we have the constant growing of automation and robotics ‘taking our jobs’ on one level, and a constant awakening of the power of our minds, understanding of Nature, Permaculture and Natural Farming on another level. It’s just a matter of putting ‘two and two’ together.

      RBE is already happening and growing.

      • Max says:

        TVP is a solution designed to express the highest attainable degree of diversity among thinking. Thus, it would provide people with the best ability to allow their society to evolve intelligently. This would make our current arguments about the best systems obsolete, since they would all be considered in the long run.

    • Christin says:

      It’s essential that the idea of the RBE is held within many organizations. It’s essential that there are many paths for the individual to find their way to RBE. Especially since people often dismiss the idea of RBE because of small objections to HOW the organization suggests implementing.
      Ex. When I first read TVP’s website (before I ever gave TZM a chance), I loved their ideas but it was clear to me that they were not actively pursuing any kind of real change because they insist that everyone must agree before action can be taken (a virtual impossibility). So I jumped to TZM, which to be honest, after viewing the movies I was about to force quit the whole idea. But after reading the orientation guide online and the clear denouncement of the understandable, but inflammatory remarks made in TZmovies, I started the search for how to start the transition. (Because spreading the word, will only get us so far, but initiating non-local action from a singular group like TZM is a surefire way to fail because communities won’t accept what they see as outside interference.)

      What I found in my search for action, is awesome…

      Tons of people starting their own projects: guerrilla gardening, open source ecology, the plethora of open educational resources, and my favorite…

      Transition Initiatives
      People are actually taking the ideas of TVP and TZM (RBE, mindset change, etc.), and attempting to transform their own communities full of people who have never heard of these ideas (and would probably reject them because of unfamiliarity).
      transitionnetwork.org

      Their focus is “community resilience” by re-localization, but essentially it’s all about transforming your community into a community that could easily transition to an RBE. There is no mention of an RBE (Leaving RBE out is a good strategy, as many people fear lack of money and that fear often interrupts rational thought.), but the framework of “response to the dual threats of peak oil and climate change” essentially gets people to start things like community gardens, sharing programs, educational programs, local renewable energy, etc. All needed for people to realize that an RBE is a better idea.
      They even talk about the importance of personal transformation, which the author of the above article mentions as “mindset”.

      It started as a single person starting a group to transform his community in the UK, and because he shares how he did it, what the groups learned, etc. It has become a network of over 1.1K towns who are currently “in transition”.

      Regardless of whether or not they officially support an RBE, it’s definitely something to look into if an RBE is a goal you’d like to work towards.

  8. Let’s work together and get to a full rbe world:

    www.facebook.com/groups/224148967647327/

  9. Sushant Roy says:

    By the Mother

    The Supramental Manifestation upon Earth

    29 February 1956

    “This evening the Divine Presence, concrete and material, was there present amongst you. I had a form of living gold, bigger than the universe, and I was facing a huge and massive golden door which separated the world from the Divine.

    “As I looked at the door, I knew and willed, in a single movement of consciousness, that “the time has come”, and lifting with both hands a mighty golden hammer I struck one blow, one single blow on the door and the door was shattered to pieces.
    “Lord, Thou hast willed, and I execute,

    A new light breaks upon the earth,

    A new world is born,

    The things that were promised are fulfilled.

    “The manifestation of the Supramental upon earth is no more a promise but a living fact, a reality.

    “It is at work here, and one day will come when the most blind, the most unconscious, even the most unwilling shall be obliged to recognise it.”

    On 10 July 1957 the Mother said “It seems strange that something so new, so special and I might say so unexpected should happen during a film-show.( A Bengali film, Rani Rasmani)….and while I was seeing that …. I saw the reality it was trying to represent, what was behind, and this put me in touch with all that world of religion and worship, of aspiration, man’s whole relationship with the gods, which was the flower of the human spiritual effort towards what is higher than he. And suddenly I had concretely, materially, the impression that it was another world, a world that had ceased to be real, living, an outdated world which had lost its reality, its truth, which had been transcended, surpassed by something which had taken birth and was only beginning to express itself, but whose life was so intense, so true, so sublime, that all this became false, unreal, worthless….the old spirituality was an escape from life into the divine Reality, leaving the world just where it was, as it was; whereas our new vision, on the contrary, is a divinisation of life, a transformation of the material world into a divine world. This has been said, repeated, more or less understood, indeed it is the basic idea of what we want to do. But this could be a continuation with an improvement, a widening of the old world as it was–and so long as this is a conception up there in the field of thought, in fact it is hardly more than that–but what has happened, the really new thing, is that a new world is born, born, born. It is not the old one transforming itself, it is a new world, which is born. And we are right in the midst of this period of transition where the two are entangled–where the outer still persists all-powerful and entirely dominating the ordinary consciousness, but where the new one is quietly slipping in, still very modest, unnoticed–unnoticed to the extent that outwardly it does not disturb anything very much, for the time being, and that in the consciousness of most people it is even altogether imperceptible. And yet it is working, growing -until it is strong enough to assert itself visibly.

    “In any case, to simplify things, it could be said that characteristically the old world, the creation of what Sri Aurobindo calls the Overmind, was an age of the gods, and consequently the age of religions….And at the very summit of all that, as an effort towards a higher realisation there has arisen the idea of the unity of religions, of this “one single thing” which is behind all these manifestations; and this idea has truly been, so to speak, the extreme limit of human aspiration….To grasp it, a reversal is needed. It is necessary to leave the Overmind creation. It was necessary that the new creation, the supramental creation should take place.

    “In the supramental creation there will no longer be any religions. The whole life will be the expression, the flowering into forms of the divine Unity manifesting in the world. And there will no longer be what men call gods.

    ” When the physical substance is supramentalised, to incarnate on earth will no longer be a cause of inferiority, quite the contrary. It will give a plenitude which cannot be obtained otherwise.

    “But all this is in future; it is a future… which has begun, but which will take some time to be realised integrally. Meanwhile we are in a very special situation, extremely special, without precedent. We are now witnessing the birth of a new world; it is very young, very weak–not in its essence but in its outer manifestation–not yet recognised, not even felt, denied by the majority. But it is here. It is here, making an effort to grow, absolute sure of the result. But the road to it is a completely new road which has never before been traced out – nobody has gone there, nobody has done that! It is a beginning, a universal beginning. So, it is an absolutely unexpected and unpredictable adventure.”

  10. Sushant Roy says:

    To support the author and people who just love to talk about TVP dream without walking the talk let me tell this to them. I know there would be lot of arguments of defend TVP supporters but I personally have objections with people who talk about love of Jesus and not being able to love thy neighbor. Please walk the talk! You can live RBE today if you gather, TVP is just a better idea to implement RBE but it is not dependent on TVP. It is about having that paradigm.

    1. RBE is not about Venus City Project, it is about attitude of living that way, without or with technology, it is about paradigm shift.

    2.Wind energy also need oil as a base coz oil is the base of all plastic. So till we don’t find some miraculous way of producing energy supply the Venus City Project cannot be applied all over the world. We have crossed the peak oil. We do not need hifi technology to live, we need intelligence and understanding to live in peace and that is about to challenge ourselves to do so and our start thinking.

    3. If someday people all 99% population comes to know about The Venus City idea without its implementation would be like some stories of religion which people would worship and teach others creating a dogma, it won’t transform your own life. See all people know about God but that doesn’t transform their behaviour. You will waste your life spreading an idea which would never be applied. We are living today and we got to transform our lives today! I ain’t say not to pass on the movies and ideas to people but that is not just enough!

    4. If you think that someday TVP thing will be adopted by some country going bankrupt then you don’t require to spread the awareness coz those people whom you are spreading awareness are not the decision makers so why to talk to them.

    5. People don’t take movies so seriously at all. They just get entertained intellectually.

    6. There are people all over the world who know everything but will not walk the talk. Changing yourself is getting out of homeostasis which is very painful. RBE is attitude of living with people in harmony with a proper distribution management system. RBE is not a new idea, Jacque has learnt it from many such existing communities but humanity does not have to be waiting for The Venus City Project though it is a best town planning system no doubt about it.

  11. Sushant Roy says:

    www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d0zVcC-neyM here is an example. Global Communities coming up living RBE reality

  12. Sushant Roy says:

    I completely agree with he author

    “RBE is a concept that has to take root in the mind of humanity, and the main aspect of it is not TVP and its drawings, it is the notion of a money- and propertyless society where we share and give instead of trade, buy and sell. This is the core of RBE. Sharing and giving. No matter how much we automate things or how many machines we have, this has to be and is the core of a resource based economy. Actually, it has nothing to do with technology, but everything to do with our mindset and values, and how we see the world.”

  13. jrbarnard says:

    Take a look at this.

    dare4change.org/2012/08/22/auroville/

    It is one page of text and a video less than 4 minutes… then let me know if you see some sychroncity with the Venus Project like I do…for starters:

    1.) Auroville (located in South-East India) has a circular layout like Venus P.
    2.) Auroville aims to grow from at present 2000 in the community to 50,000 inhabitants like Venus P.
    3.) Auroville’s has the goal of getting free of individual capitalism like Venus P.
    4.) Aurovile’s residents pursuits include organic agriculture, forestry, educational research, health care, rural development, etc. much like Venus P.

    What is very interesting is the way “new villagers” are admitted into the community… the video admits straight out that it is not entirely “moneyless” but I see so many commenter that seem frustrated that something, anything even it it’s not perfect is at least trying to move or grow in the direction of RBE … so therefore the ideas beind Auroville (est. 1968) may be worth a little more exposure. Don’t you think?

    • Harald Sandø says:

      Yes, I also thought Auroville looked interesting at first. Still, it was established in 1968, and it seems a bit stagnated at the moment. At least that’s the feeling I get. But there is no doubt a lot to learn from Auroville, both it’s mistakes and successes. I haven’t been there myself, but here’s an article from one who has: renekmueller.com/Auroville_2010

      • Renard says:

        Good article.
        some thoughts:
        “There are several issues, one of them is the economic and social exploitation of the local tamilian workers at Auroville, and some Aurovillians are even aware of it, but obviously are too comfortable with the setup to want to change it.”
        Ouch. I dont know what the exploitation is about, but if Aurovillians were tasked with the Tamilian workers chores a day or two a week, and if the tamilian workers had some kind of benefit (other than minimum-wage-ish pay, I assume) it might be better. I have no problem with emergent communities “indirectly” exploiting people initially (using computers made by exploited workers), but there needs to be a plan to gradually reduce the need to resort to exploitation, not just casual comfort about it, specially if its more direct (thus easier to alleviate).

        “the long lasting conflict between the “city builders” (who want to implement the original plan of the city) and the “forest group” (who want to plant as many trees as possible)”
        To me this is a prime example of why diverse communities, with their own defined lifestyle/features, are needed, because different people will want different things, if you bunch them together you are bound to have conflicts and people that dont get what they prefer, where as, a tree-loving community and a seperate nearby city-loving community would allow everyone to have a closer exerience to what they prefer, and in addition, you could get a vacation-ish change of pace by going to the other community for a while because you have more options, instead of two of the same one-size-fits-all communities.
        “occassional broad daylight harrassment toward western women on the road; but then this is a problem not just in Auroville, rather all over India, and towards women in general*” Related issue, one size fits all doesnt work, because social environment is diverse, but if you have different communities with different lifestyles, it should be clear what “code of conduct”(mini-education about the basics and particularities of a given community are) is within a community. YEs, with education many differences will iron themselves out, but it could take decades and we need transition solutions in addition to probably still need different communities with different codes anyway.

        “We tried to check “Centre Guest House” about the availability and pricing, yet the responsible western eldery woman at the desk was plain rude and obviously unhappy with her job . . . wow, first eye opener: suspicion and rudeness toward guests.”
        Tried? That sounds inefficient. They havent improved this “first impression” in decades? If Im part of a RBE-ish community I would expect Pricing and room availablity to be openly accessible online 24/7, or a plan to get than in a given project time frame.
        “obviously unhappy with her job” a) thats unfortunate, b) Was this a full time
        job? c)was this the person in the entire community that was most interested in volunteering for greeting desk? d)Given that information ought to be available in a easy self-service way, one of the primary qualities of a person responsible for greeting/help/guest desk I would presume is precicely a welcoming attitude and pleasant people-skills.
        Anyone can have a bad day, even in a RPB-ish village, but I dont get the impression Auroville is well organized in some respects or that any volunteering is efficiently allocated (or that skills to develop/interests for each tasks are mapped out).

    • Renard says:

      Imo, diversity is good, and Auroville certainly is different, and also think we can learn from its sucesses and failures.

      “The Mother established Auroville”
      Though I dont know what “The Mother” is, There’s a Guru-ish commune vibe to this snip sentence. I dont have information to support a view one way or another, but generally speaking, there have been many guru communes, virtually all have collapsed or managed at best to endure as arrested development cases. In some cases the central figure’s good intentions/wisdom/judgements steers the community and when the central figure is no longer willing or able to do so, there’s no independent organized method of operation, so things go down hill. The central figure probably gets reinforcements from helping the community(giving it fish) as opposed to endeavoring to make himself obsolete(teaching to fish and give a fishing net so you no longer are needed). This is normal, we want to be respected, want to help, and want to be needed to some extent, etc, so even if the Guru is not intentionally manipulative/chief-of-the-band you can hurt the autonomy (and growth/development/evolution) of the organization even with good intentions.

      As for the survivalist/environmental commune side of the vibe Im getting, my initial uninformed opinion is that if all of society became Auroville-ish, industrial production would collapse, there would be no planes, no computers, no satelites, no internet, no MRI or specialized medical equipment. From what I have seen very briefly, it is sustainable from a survivalist perspective, the same way a tribe of cavemen in the wilderness or a feudal medieval domain would be, but not from a civilizational perspective. Imo everyone being nice to each other and caring for the environment is really nice, but its not the key, the same way being hard working was not the key of industrial revolution, its method and specialization (along with organization in this case the corporation model) that allowed a few people to produce enough goods for hundreds. So Imo a community should, which might be the case here or not, see itself as a part in a network, an organ that provides something to the rest of communitites and gains from the interaction with others who are specialized in other activities.

      The other aspect is that a model that kind of works on a small scale, might utterly fail on a larger scale. In a small community you dont need formal mechanisms to know if your neighbour is ok, or it might be known that no ones volunteering for task X so Joe volunteers, but in a larger community, information systems might be required.

      Imo a succesful model of organization would take into account the needs of the individuals, and would coordinate the working of people of the community in a factory for example at least part time, in a way thats as close to informed volunteering as possible, with as much openess and flexibility as possible, and yet still allows people to get sufficient work experience to increase competence/performance/specialized which they could most likely help share with others(since the better other volunteers are, the less work you need to do for quality to be at a given level).

      “circular city”
      To me the circular city feature is like someone saying he has made a large clay statue in the shape of an apple tree, so he must be closer to having apples, as opposed to someone saying he managed to find most of the right conditions for an apple seed to sprout but has nothing that “looks” remotely close to a large apple tree yet. Even if your clay statue looks like an apple tree in many respects, you are light years away from apples, because not only are you on the wrong path, but to make things worst you actually think your on the right one, which is even worst imo, the small detail that the small seed self generates into the tree, has the right mechanisms to convert matter around it and shape it into what will eventually grow into a tree, is a key understanding.

      • Renard says:

        Ouch, that was too long and might be seen as a negative view of Auroville, so just to reiterate the positives: a) it is interesting, b) it add diversity which is good imo, and c) it provides experiences others can learn from.

  14. [...] value system, and The Zeitgeist Movement and The Venus Project, who first worked together but now go separate ways, have stirred up the otherwise dormant discussion about a possible resource-based [...]

  15. Ankit Mittal says:

    Hi. I know the there are many people out there who have been working to spread awareness about RBE and TVP, but sadly it’s not working out that well. And the reason is that people are just not interested in it. Why? Because they do not think that they will see a change this huge in their own lifetime. Why care and work for something which might not materialize in their own lifetime? That’s how people think. If there was a quick solution for this, it would have worked till now. So how do we solve this?
    I have been thinking about this, and I know it’s a crazy idea, but the only thing that really affects people is when they see an example. I know that RBE can only work when we think of the whole Earth and all organisms as one, but to initiate such mentality in people’s mind, we have to start as individuals. Individuals, who are not only aware about this concept, but people who are ready to refuse being a part of the system RIGHT NOW. A bunch of people who create a self sustainable world for themselves, use only renewable resources, grow their own food, and don’t require currency for anything. Slowly, over time, these bunch of people from different parts of the world get together and form a self-sustaining society. By watching and understanding the merits of such a WORKING society, more people will be drawn to it, and more importantly, they will have a society to live in if they choose to deny the current monetary system. Right now, I don’t want to use this paper money, but I am forced to, because there is no other way. Same goes for all the people who actually do understand the sheer ridicule this world is right now. Educating people is important, but it should be quickly followed by an example, or else the motivation dries out. Or else we can wait for the end of the world to get started again.

    But there are numerous hurdles. How do I, as a single person, get out of the society and still maintain a high standard of living? Do I start cultivating my own food in my backyard? Shall I spin my own clothes? I don’t know. But we have the technology and the means to share it across the world (INTERNET). Can someone work with me to think about ways to create a non-society-dependent model for an individual? I know it sounds like it is totally opposite to the concept of RBE, but it is not. RBE says that all are one, the whole world is one. Fortunately, the reverse is also true. Every individual, individually represents the society too. Only then the whole world exists in one big harmonious system. The monetary system and the current society is just a hurdle which will eventually be removed with this mindset. But someone has to actually start DOING it instead of just talking about it.

    • Hello Ankit. I agree with what you say. It is totally frustrating living in this transitional time, yet exhilerating as well. I too am frustrated with just talking about the kind of world I would like to see, I want it to happen right now. Well I’ve always been a bit impatient. The saying “be the change you want to see” keeps coming to my mind and I am constantly reminded by the universe that I must be patient. So I spread the word via face book and just talking to people, writing poems about how the world is and how it could be, and my new challenge for myself, is to get a really good vegie patch happening and then unconditionally share excess produce with neighbours and friends – promoting the idea of a giving economy. Harold Sando, is right when he talks about our mindset and values needing to change, and this will take time, because our capitalist and consumer based ideas, as well as neo-liberal discourses, such as people make it solely through their own volition, will be very hard to shift. But it is happening and perhaps we will hit some critical mass at some point when things will suddenly tip the other way.

      I also like your idea of creating a community that separates themselves from mainstream society and creates an example of how things could work in a resource based economy. I’m not sure how we would go about it. It would require finding like-minded people who would and could take some radical steps in claiming some land for themselves and declaring themselves as a sovereign group, answerable only unto themselves. I think people have tried this in the past without much success. But the idea is definately worth givng further thought.

      I think it is important to keep sharing ideas about how the world could be, as well as highlighting inequalities that currently exist. I have created a face book page called “Visionary Tactics” in order to create a conversation about the kind of world we would like to see, rather than what is not working at the moment. That way we can create a vision of a world which inspires and excites us and start moving towards that. So far it hasn’t taken off but hopefully it will create some momentum and snow ball into the future.

      On a final note – I believe that we are all one – that we have come down this path for a reason – that things are shifting and changing – and that if we constantly act from a space of love – then bit by bit we will change our experience of the world – as well as the world itself.

    • Renard says:

      Ankit Mittal:
      “And the reason is that people are just not interested in it. Why? Because they do not think that they will see a change this huge in their own lifetime.”
      Two points,
      First, for me RBE was Utopian fantasy initially, even if I had heard the hour of presentation, it took time to reflect, digest, reassess, review the information based on new assesment and new perspectives, before I concluded that yes, indeed, its a good idea in theory. It took me hours over the span of many months. Few people spend that time for something they dismiss as unrealistic. Telling people human flight is possible when everyone thinks its not is one thing, showing them a functional prototype is another.
      Second, in my opinion a huge change can be just a few years away. Worgl turned a time of great depression and dispair into prosperity in a very very short time, by issuing local currency according to set parameters. A week before the new system was introduced, Im sure no one saw any light at the end of the tunnel, then bam! an interaction is introduced that changes the situation very quickly. Ive also once had forgotten a bottle of soda in the freezer, when I got it out it was 100% liquid, I bumbed it by accident on the side of the fringe and saw with my disbeleiving eyes the soda freeze spreading from the point of impact to freeze the entire bottle freeze in less than 2 seconds. I think we have all the ingredients to start a chain reaction that starts with a small group of people that organize in a different way, and then is joined by many and inspires others to organize in variants tat also gather people. We dont have that afaik, but in the next months or years we could hear about it and say “hey thats great, Im helping them out, Im joining”. The ingrediens are there, open source, social networks, micro-praticipation on a mssive scale, cooperatives, communities that modify games on a voluntary basis, open source ecology, ecological awarness, they are all parts of the puzzle that are worth helping out and knowing about, but when the pieces come together in a new organized way, everything will change for a group of people and that group will rapidly grow and duplicate variants of its organization. My opinion.

      “I know that RBE can only work when we think of the whole Earth and all organisms as one”
      I disagree with this premise. Atoms still exist even if molecules are formed, unicellular lifeforms still exit after millions of years of multi-cellular life, the bronze age requires stone tools to start but does not cease to be valuable because some tribe still uses stone tools, you cant say the bronze age will never happen until the lost tribe in the amazon start smelting metals or say I wont start a bronze tooled community until every tribe in the entire planet get on board, it’d never get done. If the earth belongs to everyone it also belongs to people that dont yet see the advantages of RBE.

      “A bunch of people who create a self sustainable world for themselves, use only renewable resources, grow their own food, and don’t require currency for anything.”
      I dont think self sutainability is the key, at least initially. A seed is not self sustaining, in the sense it requires input soil, etc, a peble is self sustaining but it doesnt grow(like most eco-self-subsistance communities), a RBE-ish group will not be sustainable imo since youd need materials, computers, medicine and servives from people on the outside(which requires money initially), but the seed gradually organizes these exterior input and gradually integrates them into the growing organized structure. Imo the RBE-seed-group will use money (since its part of the environment, the same way you might initially use stone tools to build a kleen to make bronze tools possible, you cant say we’ll use inexitant bronze tools to build the infrastructure that makes bronze tools possible.) Of course the seed alters the interaction between the soil elements, so money would be used differently, most probably for external interaction and most probably less/not used for internal activity.

      “By watching and understanding the merits of such a WORKING society, more people will be drawn to it, and more importantly, they will have a society to live in if they choose to deny the current monetary system. ”
      I agree.

      To Catherine:
      “So I spread the word”
      To me thats like putting the soda bottle in the freezer as I had done, it didnt have any *visible* effect just setting the conditions, seconds before the jolt it was as if putting the bottle in the freezer had been useless had no effect, but when the bottle was jolted that’s what made the change of state spread very quickly. Speading awareness appears to have no impact, but when the right catalyst occurs it will help make the communities grow and multiply very quickly. I also think that the apparent Trap we are in is decepitive (and “almost” strategically good in a sense) because it conceals how just how quickly things can change once the millions of people that druge have an alternative they prefer.

      cheers

      • Harald Sandø says:

        Your bronze age analogy is very fitting. I have thought myself if we can ‘use money to get out of money’, and my conclusion as well was; yes. And actually, we have to. In any case, it will be very difficult to try not to. As you say, in the stone age, they had to use stone to be able to make the tools to make bronze… And now we have to use money to create the ‘RBE world’ and get out of money.

        The freezing soda bottle is also a very good analogy. I also think that all the awareness spreading and information are like seeds. And given the right conditions, they will shoot and grow like you could never imagine.

    • john doe says:

      Response to: Tony
      “-You are right in many aspects. But to base the idea that parents cast off their kinds in the care of other for the sole purpose of greed is quite absurd. We are biologically ingrained to take care of our offspring and to say otherwise in scientifically wrong. If people were truly greedy then they would horde their wealth and possessions like ancient pharaohs and not give them to the family.”
      —————————————–

      I know it’s been a while but I feel that his reply deserves a response. It may be “scientifically wrong” but it happens everyday all over this country… It’s taught to us via conditioning…

      We are conditioned by society (news, tv, opera, fox n friends etc) that both parents should work save money, buy a house, send our kids to college, basically be good little consumers. Which is what most folks do including my parents. They put me in daycare at an early age (3) and both worked. My father worked as a Seamen so he was gone for 9 months out of the year. So basically in my early years i was raised by a hateful nanny and then it was time for preschool/nanny, then elementary school with daycare afterwards.

      I say all this to say that i was for the most part raised by the nanny. Not my parents which caused a great many resentments towards them as I matured. Rightfully so, as they choose their careers moreover the love of money over their child. I don’t care how you try to use your conditioning to justify this. IT is what it is, pure in simple.

      Now granted this is no different then any other parents do and by all the current standards is considered Normal. I submit to you it is not!!! Normal would be to raise your own kids instilling in them the values that you think they should have. Not the values of the nanny or the other kids in daycare. I would have been better off raised by my parents broke living under a bridge.At least I could say that they raised me. Which was not the case..

      You see by my parents not being around much even in my teen years most of my values were passed down to me by classmates and friends from my neighborhood. ie Make money from selling drugs, women are here for our pleasure and nothing more, jealousy, envy, vanity, etc., etc. Furthermore I was also conditioned by MTV as that’s what i watched when i wasn’t running the streets.

      Is there any question that I grew up to be a drug dealer, pimp, and eventually a full blown homeless crack addict?

      Think about the average family and how much time in a week you spend with YOUR children.

      My son goes to the bus stop at 6:30 am, he returns from government school at 4:00pm. If I’m not home because I’m working. (try to as little as possible/self-employed) Then i don’t get home until about 5:30 pm. we have dinner together most days. He’s in the shower for 7:00pm and off to bed at 9:00 pm to get enough rest to go to government school the next morning. That’s 3-1/2 hours a day we are in the house together not sleeping… Part of that time he is doing homework, going out side to play, taking a shower etc. So roughly we spend about a hour a day together.

      That’s 5 hours a week. That’s 5 hours out of a 120 hour 5 day week. How can i possibly be spending enough time with him to instill my values in him in a given week? I can’t because society has conditioned us that this is normal.

      I submit to you that is ABSURD! Then we wonder why the children in this country are running around wild. I don’t as it is easy for me to see that basically nannies, kids and tv are raising our kids… Something is terribly wrong with that. It’s call conditioning….

      Basically what I’m saying is that the media has trained us that we are to go to school and then enter the job market. Which is why this country is in the place it is now. Electing a new Actor, ah I mean President is going to change little. You don’t need to work for anyone. Start your own business, make your own hours. I have several and I was a crack head for 10 years. Whats your excuse?

      We are to run out and get the best credit rating possible and get as many things on credit until the point that we are a slave to the creditor. That is the same reasons that our National Debt is in in the TRILLIONS. They Like to say that every household would need to pay so much to get us out of debt. I say F-you I have never purchased ANYTHING that I did not pay for out of my own pocket. It’s not my debt!! I DON’T DO CREDIT. That’s for stupid people. Yeah You!! Whoever you are that may be reading this…

      This whole way of thinking is all WRONG!!! What ever happen to save for a rainy day? If you cant afford to pay for it with cash then I submit to you that you DON’T need it!

      Like I said originally we would be better off if the economy Crashed because GREED has sent this Country to the point it is at now. We would be better off living off the land, respecting it, not just using up all the resources and moving on. Teaching our OWN kids (home school) not giving them a back seat to our so cherished Career’s. Not letting Greed disguised as a Career decide our children’s fate because of conditioning.

      This all may seem off-topic but it goes right back to the fundamental Idea that a Resource based economy would do all of us some good.

      Thanks!

  16. Mladen says:

    This is a good thing. I support absolutely everything TZM and TVP are about, but not certain technologies they stand so firm behind. Not to say that the technologies they are suggesting are very good indeed, it’s just that there’s no way in predicting what will be future’s trends. And you sure shouldn’t preach them to people as one of the main staindpoints of them movement, which is essentially about erasing the artificial borders and difference between humans.

    An example of a technologi TZM and TVP would be maglev trains. Peter Joseph is adamant that they are the future, and the truth is they are extremely fast and efficient ways of transport. However he is ignoring a few important things:
    1) The infrastructure and effort to build these is enormous. And I’m saying something on a scale 100 times of anything previously imagines. And I’m not saying it will, but building something like this on a global scale could have some environmental impact. I mean, theres a lot of natural resources that need to be used for this.
    2) Who is to say that in future we will need super fast transport for people? First of all, the urgency to travel so fast comes from job and work restraints of a today’s person. More and more jobs are being worked from home, and the ways we can interact each other remotely are sure to become very near the real thing. Sure if we wanna hang out and a physical touch, this will always be a part of our lives, but for eveyday things, I’d say skype is amazing, nevermind having a virtual wall to another place. I for example suggested having projectors at work to have our other office projected on it.

    • admin says:

      I agree completely with your view on mag-levs. A global mag-lev network would take a huge amount of resources and time to build. And before we’re finished, we might even have free energy and anti gravity…

  17. Otaku The Black says:

    This is ridiculous, TZM and TVP have the same goal: setting a resource based economy in motion. I can see that Fresco has never acknowledged that there is a common consciousness in the universe (to my knowledge) but when the RBE is started, the best way to “reconnect ourselves with the earth,” is to coexist with everything else on it. As far as I can tell, the only people that have done this properly or could do this properly, are ancient nomadic tribal people, and Dr. Jacque Fresco. The only difference between the two, is the level of technology they utilize.
    For those of you in this comment string that post “idiotic” comments, you’re part of the problem that TZM and TVP are BOTH trying to eliminate. I don’t pretend to know the details of this “break-up,” but I’m sure that both projects would reach their goal easier and more efficiently if they worked together.
    It saddens me to hear of this news, I had high hopes for the movement and the project. But now, without truly knowing Peter Joseph’s intentions, it seems like TZM may turn out to just exploit all of the people that blindly follow them. I was looking forward to living in harmony with other human beings, but now I’ll probably end up living as a hermit.

    • admin says:

      Don’t worry, we all work for the same goal still. That TVP and TZM is not working together doesn’t mean that both doesn’t want a resource based economy. Far from it. We all want RBE, and we all work for that. TVP continues to work on their solutions, while TZM work on spreading awareness about RBE. The only change is that TZM is not ‘the activist arm’ of TVP, which I personally think is rather good, as RBE can be many things, and TVP is one interpretation of RBE, and we should explore many interpretations of RBE, not just one.

    • Tony says:

      to me it sounds like they didn’t really “break up.” More like splitting up to cover more ground in raising awareness.

  18. Ivan says:

    All cool but in the movie didn’t see and dissection of the islam why is that? Thay could have started trilogy with dissection of islam no? I’m christian and I don’t bother anybody with it. It is personal thing and that doesn’t influence my way of thinking. I support this idea same like this guys from TVP TZM regarding RBE! I even think of starting exchange of goods between people doing agriculture to ignore tax and money. A church, a priest a man as well can not influence me in negative way coz I ignore all negativity and stick to good stuff, love, respect, honor etc. So in new order should be some moral norms and guidelines as well otherwise all history will repeat again.
    Why break up between this two organizations if they go same way?! Somebody needs more power, more influence than given or taken by it’s self? WHY?? All this reasons are so fake, see through. If we go together in the same directions why do we split? It’s easier to reach goal together rather than alone isn’t it? I think this split happened from pure power, influence and egoistic reasons of top guys in organizations coz each wants to be more important or ” to run the water to his mill”. Where is dialog and reasonable solution for benefit of the final goal?!?!? Great ideas but again human part will split and the end destroy a great idea!!!! Sorry for my bad English!
    Greetings from Croatia!

  19. optimus prime says:

    Why that basturds splitting? TZM and TVP was my heroes and Gods. Why thay fighting? Personal i want to slap P.J, J.F and R.M with a chair in face and force them to give dichader a hug.

    • admin says:

      You shouldn’t make anyone your hero or God. It will only lead to disaster.

    • Tony says:

      to cover more ground to raise awareness. This is why the TZM is essentially “leaderless” to promote others to create organizations or chapters to raise awareness of TZM’s mission and ideas. This is a great idea in my humble opinion.

  20. admin says:

    To all commenters. This article was updated on Sept. 27. 2011, to a more thought through form. The previous version was written in a more negative emotional state, and all comments below this one are based on the previous version of this article.

    Still, the main theme of the article is the same, and so are the opinions, though expressed in a more cordial manner and with a wish for everyone on every ‘side’ leaving our egos and take a ‘third perspective’ where we can meet half way.

  21. Peter says:

    Solar technology will safe the world and make money obsolete! By further developing the technology and massproducing the PV cells, the price per kWh will go to zero. Imagine a world with a decentralized energy system which generates kWh for free.
    How does the world look like then: no wars for oil, water or recources since everything can be recycled at low costs, since everything costs energy. Efficiency in production will be looked at differently because energy costs are not an issue anymore.
    No more polution of the air, no CO2 emissions, no water shortage, because of cheap (free) desalination. No more monopolies on anything.
    Every action on the planet uses, energy and resources. Extracting resouces however demand energy, so in the end it is all about energy and what if this might happen to be for free.
    That is my vision for the world! Solar cells and free energy for everyone will make the planet a better place!

    • duanev says:

      The only problem is the rate at which our energy use increases (about 2.3% per year for the last 100 – see physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/07/galactic-scale-energy/ – the whole article is eye opening). We must stabilize our population before anything like a sustainable society can be created. Achieving zero population growth is the first challenge – then picking the equilibrium point is the next. Too large and we depleat planet resources, too small and we can’t achieve the creative intellectual critical mass to progress at a reasonable rate (genius isn’t hereditary, apparently it is accidental).

      What concerns me about both TZM and TVP is how either of these organizations will be self-sustaining. Headless orgs tend to drift in random directions (ie. how do you herd cats without even a shepherd?), and as the admin pointed out, leadership unfamiliar with human elements tend to loose popular support.

  22. diana says:

    I would have to disagree with the bad reference given to TVP .. We are conditioned by society when you were born you began to be conditioned with ego and other things that unfortunately are reflections on the world we have today. Tell me how many people are really conscious about our “oneness” if you can put it that way. VERY low percentage of the people. TVP is something that is far long idealized but possible if people reached that point of understanding and began arriving to the same awareness that Mr. Fresco is trying to prove is necessary and sufficient to make TVP possible. We definitely need to work on ourselves and evolution will take care of the ones that are too lazy to think out of the box. I believe in a future we will be giving the recognition of a genius like Fresco. It is easy to point out the faults is hard to bring out SOLUTIONS!

  23. Andi Rutz says:

    Money was never the purpose of workinf, but the materials and objects we can get with it. Tzgm is right when it sais that money is worthless today, but, what will be our motivation? How about science amdvancement? How about reconstructing and curing our planet? How about exploring and gaining knowledge of our wolrd… So one day we can go and explore other worlds… That should keep ups more than ocupied and motivated for a while… Stop thinking of what will we do after, we havent even started to change… This is not about us but about the world as a whole system… Jaque is a wise man. We have to drop the human ego and start rhinking as what we are, just another creature in this planet. We should work as white cells for it, not as viruses…

    • Tony says:

      I completely agree. It seems that people have trouble with the idea that without work to give them basic needs, since its already given for free, what do they do? It’s like a criminal fully remorse and sorry for what he or she did and the police officer lets he or she go knowing that they probably will never do it again. What’s funny is that the would-be criminals don’t know what to do. So what does RBE do for us? RBE frees us to pursue our childhood dreams. Some will argue that people will become lazy. Unfortunately some will, but the majority will eventually get tired of it and want to do something productive. We can’t just simply eat and sleep until we die. It is human nature to find purpose. In a RBE where human needs are met for free, it allows us to truly be free. Free from fear that we can’t do it. Free from monetary constraints that limit us. Just imagine the amount of creativity and ingenuity unleashed when limitations imposed upon us are no longer relevant.

      • Joseph Lee says:

        I believe the idea is that in the future, people will have been conditioned to not experience laziness. To always be thirsting for knowledge and nothing like the bored and jaded people of today.

  24. TZMSUCKS says:

    Its obvious that the one who wrote and runs this website doesnt knows a shit about TVP and a RBE.

    He just writes what he feels, not what he knows.
    Cause he doesnt know a shit about RBE.

    RBE can only work in cities like the ones TVP proposes.
    And it was design for that.
    If someone stole this idea of RBE it will fail, because he wants to implement its own values.

    Thats the problem with people like this who doesnt put attention to what jacques saids.

    YOU FREAKING HAVE STOLE RBE NAMES FROM ITS CREATOR. SHAME ON UUUUUU

    • admin says:

      I admit it, I HAVE stolen the term ‘resource based economy’. But then again, Mr. Fresco admits himself that he would be nothing without all the scientists and people before him. Thus, most of HIS work is stolen too. And this, if you haven’t noticed, is how science and the world itself moves forward. Besides, do you think someone can really ‘own’ a term like this? Firstly, it would go totally against what it stands for, which is non-ownership. Secondly, it would be the same as someone claiming ownership to ‘capitalism’ or ‘socialism’. Pretty ridiculous.

      If you think ‘RBE’ won’t work without Mr. Fresco and his cities, well then, we’re doomed. Bummer. Ok, I’ll put down this website. Sorry.

      No, honestly. I’m not agains TVP or Fresco or anyone. Not even you. Even though you put idiotic comments here.

      This site is for everyone who want’s to contribute to the term ‘resource based economy’. If you think this term is ‘ready thought out’ and there’s nothing more to add….well, then I don’t know what to say to you. If you, on the other hand, see that the concept of RBE needs to be discussed (or else it is only a new totalitarian concept) and created by us, you, me, and ‘everyone’ on this planet, then I invite you to share your thoughts here on this website.

      Everyone can register and write here. I think, no I know, that you are the only one who have reacted like this to this website. Those who are pro RBE are very happy to find this site, while some who are pro capitalism have left some just as ridiculous comments as yours. Your comment shows that you can’t have spent much time on reading anything on this site. And your nickname ‘tzmsucks’ only shows that you are one of those who would be brainwashed by anything, and it was just a coincidence it happened to be TVP.

      When it comes to put attention to what Jacque says, I’ve met him personally (after having read and studied a lot of what he has said and written), done a two hour interview (I will post this interview on this site) and filmed his and Roxanne’s lecture in Stockholm. So, I think I’ve put a lot of attention to what he says. I might though, unlike some others, also use my own brain to think with and can actually REASON (don’t know if you know what that means) and form my own thoughts on things.

      I like both Mr. Fresco and Ms. Meadows and the whole concept of The Venus Project. What I think they lack, though, is what I try to fill in with this website, and that is what a resource based economy will ACTUALLY BE LIKE in the world. Mr. Fresco say’s it will only work within his cities. Well then, I’d say that with this outset it will never work. RBE have to be understood and adopted by the majority of the population on this planet for it to ever work.

      • Tony says:

        Brainwashed is such a terrible word like cult. A RBE only works in TVP cities is exactly right. This is why this is a global initiative. We can’t have the majority in this project we need everyone. Brainwashed or not you have to see the logic behind the creation of these organizations. To think otherwise is an insult to my fellow humans and to you. There is a reason why we are sentient intelligent beings. BTW so what if people steal people’s idea? It sounds harsh, but think about it. The leaders of these organizations have values just like the rest of us. I have watched hours of lectures, read related articles. What exactly will they gain from a RBE that benefits the world so much that everyone and I mean everyone can live like those of the 1%?

  25. john doe says:

    I’ve broken this up into sections so as to not have the appearance of some long drawn out rambling. I would like to address individual points in this article individually.
    ———————————————————————
    “And as far as I (and 99,9999999999% of all others) are concerned, RBE is still a VAGUE concept!”

    Please leave me and the many people/percentage points out of your calculations.

    I believe almost any change from the current course would be a MAJOR improvement for society. Even to the extent that a total economic meltdown forces us to return to the living off of the land and barter replacing money. Basically if everyone were homeless (which I have been) living in tents and we had to grow and hunt for food. We would be 99,9999999999% better off then the current course.

    ————————————————————————————
    TVP has a lot of good drawings and suggestions for new design and technology, but they’ve obviously completely forgotten THE HUMANS! And with the recent events, it becomes even more clear that an understanding of how humans work is almost absent. Mr. Fresco Ms. Meadows believes they think how humans work, but they don’t. If they did, this would not have happened. Besides, they would have had a lot of support for TVP a long time ago.

    I couldn’t disagree with this more. This is TOTALLY about humans, how do you not get that? Basically same answer as above applies. Any change IMO would be better then the current course. They promote living in harmony with nature not consuming it then moving on to the next, which eventually will run out on the current heading.
    They promote clean/green energy etc., etc. How do you not get that this all about improving and sustaining human life more so then the current standard. War, poverty, Greed, eco-friendly mass transportation just to name a few would be addressed. Is that not improving humans lives? It could not be more about THE HUMANS!

    ———————————————————————-

    I asked them ‘why do people do what they do’? Their only answer is that ‘they are conditioned to do it by society’.

    Gonna need to split this one up a bit.

    It makes TOTAL sense!!! Do you deny that we are conditioned by society?

    Going from being strung out on crack and homeless for 10 years to getting clean and owning 30+ websites gives me a real clear view of this conditioning. You see I basically dropped out of society for 10 years then returned. So I have a very different view of it then most people.

    I now live in a small town to escape the drama of the cities. Small town mentality is something very different to me as in my addiction and most of my sobriety i lived in one city or another.

    I give you examples of this conditioning.

    Small town mentality/ conditioning:

    Don’t go to church and your are a sinner/outcast.
    Don’t allow your kids to play with the badly misbehaved neighbors kids, then your isolating them.
    Don’t wake up till noon because you manage your sites (job) at night and your lazy and looked down on. Even though you make more money then them.

    They are conditioned with the small town mentality.

    —————————————————————————

    My notion was that our basic reason to do ANYTHING is Fulfillment,
    or the search for joy or happiness, if you will. No, this was a totally strange notion to them.

    First and foremost is GREED! Money rules most decision making in this day and age. Why else would people cast off there small children to have someone else raise them? (daycare, nannies, boarding schools) Greed! Disguised as a career.

    Then WHY are they doing what they do???
    Why is Jacque drawing his drawings every day? Why are they working to fulfill their dreams? If it’s not for their own fulfillment, then what is it?

    Yeah granted fulfillment comes into play but portraying it as there main motivation is pretty critical of you. Why do I help feed homeless people? What fulfillment do I gain? Your leaving out many other emotions that come into play. Caring, sympathy, concern for fellow man just to name a few.

    ———————————————————————-

    Are they only programmed by society to do what they do??? That doesn’t make sense.

    Sure they were, but at some point many of us turn off the tv and start educating ourselves to think outside of the box that is currently inserted into our society. Simply put…

    • admin says:

      Hi, thank you for your reply. Looks like I’ve stirred up things a bit… ;)

      When I say they don’t understand ‘the humans’, I mean two things.
      1. That they have not been able to communicate very well their viewpoints to the masses, or else ‘the masses’ would have heard of TVP a long time ago, and supported it.
      2. That TVP focusses a lot on technology and science, while most people have VALUES that needs to be addressed. Yes, Mr. Fresco addresses them somewhat, but not enough in my eyes. Also, TVP claims that ‘it will not work without him’, when talking about building his cities. Well, then, when he’s dead, we’re all doomed. Who’s gonna build the cities.

      It’s just his whole way of communicating. He wants critical questions and discussion, but at the same time, TVP seems very protective about their ideas. They should give out the blueprints and all info they have so that we could really get started building. No, instead they are keeping that info close to their chests. No serious contractor does this. Any architect knows that a huge team of engineers and builders are needed to fulfill his plans. But TVP seems to think that only Mr. Fresco himself can fulfill his plans.

      But of course, in your terms, it is all about humans. Which I agree upon.

      Of course we are conditioned by society, I say nothing else. And of course there are more emotions than fulfillment that comes into play. Still, I would say that ‘fulfillment’ covers most of them in some way. To ‘care’ for someone gives you fulfillment, to feel ‘sympathy’ for someone gives you fulfillment.

      When I say ‘fulfillment’, I mean anything that you do, say, think or feel that takes you in the direction of feeling fulfilled. Feeling happy, content. That’s what we all want. And that’s why we do the things we do. We search for fulfillment. And yes, of course, greed is today also a feeling that takes you towards the feeling of fulfillment, through money. You could say that we are conditioned by society in the WAYS we search for fulfillment.

      You say you was a drug addict but cut loose from it. Good. Now, what part of it was social conditioning? You becoming a drug addict, or you cutting loose from it? Or both? I think the search for fulfillment was there both times.

    • Tony says:

      -People continue to confuse me. TVP believes that technology will free us to pursue our dreams without the monetary system that constraints us. What can be more humane than that?

      -You are right in many aspects. But to base the idea that parents cast off their kinds in the care of other for the sole purpose of greed is quite absurd. We are biologically ingrained to take care of our offspring and to say otherwise in scientifically wrong. If people were truly greedy then they would horde their wealth and possessions like ancient pharaohs and not give them to the family.

      - the TVP’s lack of support is due to the fact that its ideas weren’t technologically feasible until now as technology continues to exponentially improve.

      -you should watch
      www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc
      to better understand human motivation.

  26. Trees says:

    Thank you for sharing your ideas

    You write: “TVP has a lot of good drawings and suggestions for new design and technology, but they’ve obviously completely forgotten THE HUMANS!”. To me, TVP is all about setting humans free! Providing ALL humans with not only the physical necessities of life, but also plenty of free time to grow spiritually (or do anything else we want). TVP seems hugely humane to me.

    If you visit conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/ or visit debunking911.com, you’ll see how often Peter lies or exaggerates throughout the Zeitgeist films. Yes, Peter gives voice to TVP, but his willingness to distort reality to fit his narrative coupled with his unwillingness to address or apologize for those distortions (when they are presented to him) is a little disturbing to me. I feel that TVP gives Peter credibility and not the other way around. I agree with your sentiments about ego and one-ness, but I don’t see how lies contribute to spiritual awakening.

    TVP may not be the best future that humanity can attain, but there is a certain humbleness in Jacque’s notion that TVP is simply a next phase – to be improved upon or discarded by a future (and more enlightened) society. But we’ll never get to a higher level unless we start somewhere. The world unification that TVP requires seems like a reasonable goal in and of itself.

    Thank you for caring so much. Peace be with you.

  27. Viktor Skarlatov says:

    And please don’t make such a big deal about TVP and TZM splitting up. They split up for some reason, I don’t know why. I am curious and it bothers me but even if it is an ego thing it does not matter. The only thing that matters is that Jacque and Roxanne are human. They can have all the quirks and egos they want if this is the case but the important thing is the values they advocate. Even if they are gone the values and ideas Jacque advocates are of real value. No one should care that Jacque Fresco first started talking about a Resource Based Economy or about applying the scientific method to social problems. The concepts and their practical application are the valuable things. When they are gone people will continue to advocate what they stood for because it makes sense and because the system they advocate is (supposedly) much better than what we have now.

    Let me put it simply, the person behind the idea is not important, it is the idea itself.

    • Tony says:

      to put it simply.
      breakup is not splitting up.
      breakup implies that they are not willing to work together.
      It’s the opposite. They are splitting up to cover more ground so as to accelerate global awareness of their respective mission to make the world a better place. Methods may change over time but their aims are the same.

  28. Viktor Skarlatov says:

    I will tell you why Jacque is still drawing and modelling and inventing. Jacque is the perfect example of a person shaped from his environment. In all his interviews he tells the story of the great depression. This was the time that affected him so much that caused him to start looking for answers. He did not do it for self fulfillment or for the love of others. Seeing the crap around him did not make any sense. He could not believe the people are so stupid and prefer to die of hunger because they don’t have money even though the food is still there. This appalled him to no end and exactly this emotion caused him to think about our society and to seek answers.

    Also how can you say that people act for self fulfillment? 95% of the world’s population does what it does because it needs money to pay bills and for food, not because it loves doing what it does. People will start doing things for the reasons you mention only when the basic needs are met and there is no pressure to pay medical and insurance bills and all the other socially irrelevant crap.

    I hope I made my point clear.

  29. Hector says:

    I hope it’s just a misunderstanding between them. i really was sad to see such potential with Peter, Jaque and Roxanne go to waste :(

  30. ed says:

    Seems like TVP is an idea of the end movement, TZM is a movement to get there. Someone said above that “A world designed by ONE man is nothing but a totalitarian world. We need many designers, thinkers, philosophers, sociologists, agriculturists, inventors, etc. etc.” One man brought the concept forward, nothing i have read or watched said he was the only one to actualize it. You cant think a 94 year old man will be there at the end…all these people will be there to support the growth realization and function of the TVP. Doing something like this is a logistics nightmare. To make this work would take hundreds of years of slow reconditioning to get enough people into the mindset of it. Womens rights, minority rights….? rights have taken 100s of years to improve and they are still are called a movement because they are not finished. These are just a few things within the incredible scope of society. So many rights issues we have progessed in were not “end of known society events” when you think of the world society as a whole. WE do know that the ease of use in which we use resources today have an end point, primarly fossil fuels first. this is just one of many events that will shortly and dramitically affect the way we operate. The rate of change we need to make ” a future” in is dramatically short. It will be hostile and perhaps violent. 50 years or less before we get to a point at which we will be at a boil. We cant have the long struggle like it took to end slavery. People really need to pay attention to what has been said and being said. Bogging the system down with comments like, “A world designed by ONE man is nothing but a totalitarian world. We need many designers, thinkers, philosophers, sociologists, agriculturists, inventors, etc. etc.” is not going to help or progress anything. Coments like that are useless unless its just this part of it “We need many designers, thinkers, philosophers, sociologists, agriculturists, inventors, etc. etc.” Regardless of the politics of the situation, a RBE needs to occurr even if its just the world wide management of resources, figuring out very time consuming societal issues on the way and after. It Just seems some people think this will just happen. The idea might, but the logical implementation of it wont.

  31. Vlada says:

    You are completly wrong. Jacque says that people are conditioned to behave from environment. And if that environment is positive and futuristic they would behave completly diffrent. Of course love is great thing, but not this love that we learned “to do”.
    Jacque is very real and very scientific. And I don’t know how so many people cannot understand what he is talking about.

  32. I love this blog and totally support TZM and TVP, both. Ego has always been man’s down fall. It is also our interface to this world, so without it there would be nothing. Think of the mind as a tool and the ego as one aspect of the tool, the aspect that allows us to experience our creation. So put this all in perspective, the ego is our vehicle for experiencing life on earth. Once the ego is in its place, moving forward with a RBE is possible. It feels like to me that the pendulum is swinging in the direction of change for the better, so now is the time to embrace this new concept of a world without money, what I call and Love Based Economy/Society (LBE). See my blogs for more. Those who feel religion is the answer or the problem, you must first see the difference between Spirituality and Religion. It helps to know who you are!

  33. Amir says:

    After showing the addendum zeitgeist movie to my friend, we both had the opinion that they should have elaborated more on the spiritual aspect. For the people who watch and understand and know there needs to be a change, but think there will be repercussion for their spiritual expression, be it christianity or islam, or have no religious association but spiritual awareness. theres has to be unifying awareness or there will be constant attack or excuse to not open up to change. since this is a social movement what connects everyone? This world consciousness.

    • admin says:

      I agree totally that the spiritual aspect has to be emphasized in the ‘new world’ we are entering. Reincarnation and ‘life after death’ is as good as proven these days through thousands of children having confirmable memories from past lives and hundreds of similar ‘near death experiences’ during cardiac arrests, where the brain can not produce hallucinations.

      There is absolutely no doubt that we are more than our bodies and that this planet is a part of a much larger history of the universe than we have believed. This history is about to be revealed, and we will take this with us as the new history of mankind.

      This knowledge certainly turns everything upside down, and it should be included within TZM and TVP. TZM have a lot of people aware of this knowledge, while TVP sadly is completely ignorant about this.

      • gtjhuang says:

        Admin,
        I would not emphasize the spiritual aspect of our life as it is often the prelude of religious thoughts.
        Reincarnation and life after death are totally not proven. Even Dalai Lama does not want to admit that he is a reincarnated being.
        To me it is so clear that, spiritual and religious aspects of our life should be studied and understood in the department of psychology, which is a science, not personal opinion. Instead of having churches or cult gatherings, which normally ended up mingling with social politics, we should conduct these activities in the department of psychology in a health related setting.

    • Tony says:

      I haven’t seen it yet, but if what you say is true, I think that, from what I have read, they could have elaborated on the fact that religion has great many positive effects on its followers. Maybe their fear is that religion may hinder or lower the acceleration of progress due to some backward ideals religious leaders may impose on its followers in the name of faith that they may encounter. One thing I know is if Christianity and its Christian followers, one of the largest religious denominations in the world, can accept that evolution is not a lie, then what is there to worry about? Call it religious or spiritual, but I believe religion and spirituality don’t need to necessarily disappear in the name of science and progress.

  34. Bjerre says:

    When trying to understand another person it is always important to understand their fundamental model of the world. What I mean by model is the smallest set of assumptions that are required to infer a persons world view and opinions.
    Jacque is an industrial designer and his use of language is heavily influenced by this. If Jacque and Roxanne don’t know your personal “world model” it is unreasonable for you to expect that they can tailor an explanation of anything to your satisfaction.

  35. StopTheInsanity says:

    frak Zeitgeist and Venus for promulgating and profiting from (personally if not economically) the easily debunked conspiradroid moonbattery that is, “nine eleven was an inside job”.

    and shame on those who do not call them out for spreading such childishly absurd, pseudoscientific, fantasy-based ignorance.

    there is no excuse for this counterproductive and offensive behavior.

    • admin says:

      What on earth does the above comment have to do with this article?? I almost didn’t approve it, but I think some silly comments have to be approved as well, so we get a balance.

      Even though 9/11 isn’t mentioned in this article at all, I’ll comment on that statement here. The 9/11 event has an official explanation that does not make sense in very many areas. Take a look at this page for more IN DEBTH info about that from professional architects and engineers: www.ae911truth.org/

      ‘Inside’ or ‘outside’ job. The buildings couldn’t collapse that way without explosives inside. Then, who put the explosives there? And that USA in many cases has deliberately ‘made war on themselves’ up through history, so that they could have an excuse to attack their country of choice is a matter of fact. If you live in the delusion that everything is hunky dory and that poor USA is always being attacked by ‘outside forces’, you have to wake up. USA created Al Quaida and the Taliban, so that they could have ‘someone to fight’.

      The whole ‘religious struggle’ on this planet is staged to keep the population from concerning themselves with what’s essential to life, which is what nature provides for everyone, joy, happiness, bliss, friendship and real love. When enough war, misery, poverty and crime is created, together with glossed images of ‘wealth, fame, fortune and bling’, the instability they want is created with it. Why do they want instability? Because instability gives them control.

      When the masses rather think of what new car they want, or, food, if they don’t even have that, or how many ‘out there’ that want’s to kill us, or all their bills, or where to sleep next night, or how to redecorate the master bedroom in our brand new house, rather than thinking about their community, their friends, living in harmony with nature, growing your own food and sharing freely with everyone, then the ‘powers that be’ have reached their goal.

  36. I think we all need you and you all need us. i mean i am also active in The Freeconomy Community started by Mark Boyle in Bristol UK. Join with us to make us all stronger instead of splitting. We will help each other to make a moneyless World and border-less world. Click my name or the website if displayed or here www.justfortheloveofit.org .

  37. Rod says:

    Oh brother… Those who think religion is the answer are deeply mistaken. The last thing we need is to allow religion to influence any of this. Religion has had thousands of years to demonstrate its utility, but instead has demonstrated how it can be used as a means of persecution, war, and tyranny. Christianity is probably the biggest culprit. There is no god and he/she/it has no place in a resource based economy. Religion will doom any notion of a truly free society in a resource based economy as it has done in every other form of civilization.

    Burn your bibles and stop believing in imaginary sky daddies. Then we can talk.

    • admin says:

      I think, um, a middle way would be wise to take here. I am not religious myself, but there are millions who are. And if we are going to ‘get them onboard’ we must also respect their belief. As a matter of fact, one could say that it is not religion per se that has caused all the strife in the world, but disrespect for one another. So, Respect is the common denominator. If you say ‘burn your bibles’ then you are in fact no better than the priests who hit you over the head with it. And if you can’t talk to a religious person before he/she has renounced the faith, you probably never will.

      And saying that ‘god has no place in RBE’ is unnecessary. In RBE you can have whatever faith you like, as long as you respect everyone else. God or no god does not matter in RBE and that’s the whole point. Respect for one another no matter what the other might believe is the point. This way we can all get closer to each other without fear, but rather with curiosity.

      Respect

      • nikki says:

        The way in which you replied was done really well. First of all, if we all accept each others’ differences, be that religion, colour or simply just our beliefs…life as we know it now will be in a state of permanent harmony and bliss!! As a civilisation we are all driven by a force within us to provide…provide food, provide shelter, provide love etc, not only for ourselves or our families, but for others who don’t have the basic necessities entitled to everyone, either because of lack of education or the system!! Well, the system clearly doesn’t function very well if only a tiny percentage in the world live in luxury!! There shouldn’t be struggling, homeless, jobless people anywhere in the world! There shouldn’t be this great divide between rich and poor! Everyone should realise that all we need is our basic necessities to survive. Use our skills to help each other gather only what we need, and there will be enough for everyone!! No wastage, no greed, no power….just freedom and equality!! This starts with education! The same grade of education for everyone!! Why must the amount I can afford, determine the type of education I receive? If everyone thought the same, getting to a place of peace, solidarity and happiness won’t deem so far off!!

  38. Jim says:

    Good to see some sanity shining through :-)

    I totally agree that TVP was too much of a focus, and Jacque and Roxanne did not see the bigger picture when it comes to the issues of humanity.

    The biggest challenge for all of us is to not be blinded by ideas. Ideas when not seen as ideas suddenly become the ‘truth’. And people will fight over the ‘truth’.

    We need to discover this operation of illusion created by ideation in ourselves. Because until we do, we will continue to fight over ideas.

    Life is an ongoing learning, and we need to learn to live together and co-operate with each other.

    Does anyone know of a significant number of people anywhere that are of good intent and not bogged down with belief?

  39. Richard says:

    As an evangelical Christian I’d agree we need to get rid of our egos- but total slflessness comes from abandonment to God, and we must first come through Jesus Christ who died for us.

    We can try all we want on our own, but it won’t do any more good than changing the system. Some will never leave their obvious evil, and overall it will be too hard with human effort.

  40. celestial elf says:

    Thought you might like my machinima film,
    To The Venus Project
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8eYZkAuxsI
    Bright Blessings
    elf ~

  41. Tom says:

    All the talk of Monolithic Domes reminds me of Kubrick’s 2001: ASO. There’s a message for TVP and TZM in the Kubrick film which is explained here: www.kubrick2001.com/ .

    Do we control our tools or do they control us?

    Human passion is what drives any social system or movement.

    Ignorance and desire is the ultimate cause of all human suffering.

    TZM and TVP will likely not succeed in their missions because it is impossible to completely eliminate human ignorance and/or desire. This doesn’t mean that shouldn’t give the ideas presented in TZM and TVP a go, however, because one good test is worth a thousand expert opinions.

    Humans are not much better than bacteria in terms of resource utilization: howardbloom.net/Beyond_The_Supercomputer.htm

    And currently, we’re not much better than chimpanzees or the Romans: howardbloom.net/chimpanzees_and_romans.htm

    Sustainability is likely to only be possible when individual ignorance and desire is eliminated and every living, breathing human is aware of, and has an understanding of, their own impermanence.

    • admin says:

      Hm…after having seen the Kubrick thing, I would have guessed you’d say ‘permanece’, rather than ‘impermanence’…

  42. Alex says:

    I strongly believe the split up between tvp and tzm hurts the movement far greater than if the would have stayed together. How I learned of this movement and how I gathered Tzm began was mostly due to the concept of the resource based economy tvp entails. It’s disappointing how in just the beginning stages of such an important and necessary goal we have know allowed the pioneer and visionary of such a great plan to part ways with tzm. I urge tzm to reconsider the split up and once again join forces with tvp as we need everyone on this especially those responsible for the birth of tzm. If this split up occurs we are only demonstrating that none of this could ever work. Bad move on the zeitgeistmovement. I’m in when we become one again

    • admin says:

      Unfortunately, it’s TVP that has split with TZM, not the other way around.

      But I must say again that I think it is good, because, Resource Based Economy is the overlying concept here, where The Venus Project is but one possibility within a Resource Based Economy. A world designed by ONE man is nothing but a totalitarian world. We need many designers, thinkers, philosophers, sociologists, agriculturists, inventors, etc. etc. I still think, though, that The Venus Project is a very important contributor to a Resource Based Economy, but we need more contributors alongside The Venus Project, and now we might get just that.

    • gtjhuang says:

      Admin,
      Finally I got to listen to a recorded skype conference call having Zeitgeist movement members ask questions to Roxanne with Peter Joseph moderating. My take is this, both Peter and Jacque have a huge ego as many would agree. As we can tell that Peter is a very smart and talented person, and so is Jacque, if not more so and he is much older and more experienced. Of course, I only have the knowledge of listening to the skype recording and watching many news videos showing Jacque/Roxanne and Peter together being interviewed in several press conferences. How exactly the conflict between the two occurred and who is right or wrong I don’t have enough information to judge. I can only use what I know and my personal experience to evaluate.
      This split or this type of conflict is almost unavoidable unless one of them succumbs. The question is who should succumb. Peter thinks that he took credit of bringing Jacque to this level of notability he never achieved by himself because Peter is a good multimedia artist and knows how to make sensational movies. He must have a strong skill of bringing people together as well. Jacque on the other hand is a talented designer and thinker but perhaps does not have the kind of package Peter has to stir up a movement.
      If we calculate the points each has on this matter, I can see why Jacque concluded that he has the leverage over Peter to call it quits, because he has spent his entire life, and a long one, to create all those impressive and eye catching designs to attract people. Whereas Peter just jumped into this world 2 years ago as a musician. Of course, both parties can continue their respective works as Jacque’s concept is not an invention and many people have that type of thoughts already.

      There are two points we get from this split:
      1. The existing generations are already wired with high egoism and cannot be changed.
      Although we strive for a Venus Project-like future where people will be educated to have no egos and can work together in harmony, our existing generations are already educated to exercise our egos to the fullest, especially in the US. Can you imagine that nowadays the parents cannot access their children’s school grades to protect children’s self-esteem? Children are growing up with no tolerance to the faintest criticism. Once must pamper them and has to go around to say something negative/constructive.
      Peter and Jacque are not exceptional. Jacque perhaps is a bit immune as his generation was very different from the current one. The bottom line is, it is very difficult for us to move to Jacque’s world unless we set a starting point of a drastically different educational system.

      2. Peter should succumb but both should lower their egos.
      Despite the fact that Jacque/Roxanne’s decision to split may appear harsh and control-freakish, Peter should have been very sensitive about not making Jacque feel that he was being excluded in major decision making. My personal take is that Zeitgeist movement and Venus Project should go hand-in-hand with the following leadership: Jacque/Roxanne the Director of the Z movement/TVP, Peter the 2nd in command (or the Executive Director), etc. These two must work together to share their strength and set a good example to the world that at least 2 people in our generation are not hopelessly wired to the existing system and represent the members of the ideal world in the future. Jacque’s said himself that he does not want anyone to make a statue of his in the future, meaning he does not like personal worshiping. Then why does he care so much about his brand (banner) – TVP and he has to be in full command of it? If Jacque lowers his ego down a bit, that will make Peter easier to lower his and work with him closer. Jacque should know better, Peter is brought up in a generation that is quite spoiled.

  43. Jayden says:

    I wonder if we could creat RBE/RBGE with smaller circular cities, towns or communes based on Jacque Fresco’s designs? Start out small withlike minded individules. There are Monolithic dome structures www.monolithic.com/ we could unschool children and raise them based on the teachings of of Osho and the Natural Child project. Grow organic crops with modren high tech farming etc.

    • admin says:

      Hm… are you only promoting Monolithic, or do you actually mean what you say? If so, do you know the Monolithic guys? I’ve been thinking that the only way we can get RBGE in the world today, is if/when people start to take action by them selves, AND that companies starts to supply knowledge, materials, skills, machinery and manpower to realize these project. I know Mr. Fresco and Ms. Meadows disapproves of someone trying to ‘take their ideas and do it by themselves’. To quote Mr. Fresco when commenting on this: ‘they will fail’. Well, so far, Mr. Fresco hasn’t had much luck realizing his own projects either. Still, it’s obvious that anyone trying to build a TVP like ‘circular city’ will fail without Mr. Fresco’s plans and drawings. In any case, to realize a ‘true’ TVP city would require a huge contractor, it’s not something a few idealistic souls can do on their own. BUT, a few idealistic souls CAN start eco villages INSPIRED by TVP, and live by the principles of RBGE.

      Interesting that you mention Osho also. Not many who speak about him around here. One other thing I think TVP lacks. Anyway! If you are for real, I’m in.

    • Richard says:

      Why even bother with circular cities? Real cities are organic, they are laid out according to the geography and contours of the land. Maybe if you have a very flat area with no rivers in the way, you couldn manage it, but not otherwise.

  44. Dreamworx says:

    Thank you for the above. It is nice to see cool heads prevail.
    Zuperhugz!!

  45. Ramiro says:

    I do not agree with you about your opinion on TVP… but it is not a critic nor a sign of support. I think it is ok to answer “because they are conditioned to do so” because it is the truth… about the THEN WHAT? thats not easy to answer… if a resurce based economyy is going to be the system and with the help of technology then “then what?” is … I don’t know… you, I, everyone will need to do something… and it will be natural. I often wonder what I would do if tomorrow the need to work is no more… and the answer is: help, evolve…. it could be starting a new project with minds alike, about anything… could be technology, music… whatever… I may even take some time to do nothing… but nobody can stay doing nothing… socializing, interacting would reach new levels… not like now where stratification makes it difficult even to maintain a 2 minute conversation.

    I think the big issue here is that TVP is relying on money (donations in big scale) to develop some ideas, which are great but if people understood the idea behind a RBE and the concepts, the dangerous concepts of materialism and capitalism it is clear that getting into the money game will delute and disolve the idea behind TVP… same will apply if TZM starts accepting donations… money corrupts.

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