The Occupy Movement is worthless, unless…

I just finished watching the documentary ‘Inside Job’. Recommended. It spurred me to write something. This. Yes, I chose a bit provocative title, but only to make you read the article.

Up through history, there have been several demonstrations and revolutions, small and big, in almost all countries around the world. We have the French revolution, the English revolution, the Moscow uprising, the Haitian revolution, the Greek war of independence, the October revolution, and now the Occupy Wall Street and Occupy Together. There have always been uprisings and demonstrations against ‘the ruling class’.

Still, not much have changed. Why? Because we, the people, have always gone back to the ‘monetary mindset’ ourselves. And, it is the monetary mindset that lies behind so to say all borders, which are economically drawn, all governments, all corporations, the Wall Street, Goldman Sachs, The Federal Reserve and all banks in the world. Thus, it is the monetary mindset that drives this world and will continue to drive it into bigger and bigger inequality and crisis, unless we, the people, abandon this mindset.


And what do I mean by ‘the monetary mindset’? Well, it is very simple. It is the mindset that says ‘we need money’. It says ‘we need money to exchange our goods and services with each other’, ‘we need money to make this world go round’. And on a personal scale, it says ‘I need money to pay my bills’, ‘to buy my food’, ‘to pay for my education’, ‘to pay for my car’, ‘to pay for my house’, and so on.

Of course, all these statements seem very obvious when you read them like that. Of course we need money. How can we live without it??? Money has ‘always’ been around. Money is like air…and water…we can’t live without that!?!

Well, money isn’t actually like air and water. In case you didn’t know, ‘money’ hasn’t always been around. In ancient cultures, a resource based economy was much more prevalent. Human resources was used to do the planting, or rather ‘aiding’ of nature in a permaculture way, the natural resources of food was harvested and distributed to those who needed it.

What I am referring to when I say this, is the Vedruss people described in the books of Vladimir Megre about the russian recluse, Anastasia. Anastasia claim do be the direct decedent of an ancient group of people, called the Vedruss, living over 10.000 years ago.

In contrary to ‘common history’ when trying to describe ancient history more than a few thousand years ago, they were not hunter gatherers only, but also ‘helped’ the earth produce what they needed from it and created beautiful gardens for themselves. Gardens that also provided food, much like what we today would call ‘permaculture food forests’.

They lived in highly developed societies with lots of celebrations and festivities, sharing of all of the natural abundance around them. And if a traveller came along, it would be considered an honor to take care of that person. A great generosity and hospitality was the norm.

They were also highly skilled craftspeople living in wooden timber houses with detailed ornamentations and decorations. They also made clothes both of natural fibers from plants and from animal skins. Though, only from naturally dead animals. They were mostly vegetarians and meat was eaten only in small amounts.

All handicraft that they produced was mostly given away. Sometimes they got something back for what they gave, as a natural reciprocity. The bonds between people was strong and gifts were given frequently in joy.

All of the above can be confirmed from studies of ancient Russian history, while seeing it in a different light.

This history has be very distorted, though, by the ‘men behind the curtain’, making the ‘stone age man’ seem like a savage barbarian, which couldn’t be further from the truth. The term ‘stone age’ is blurring the values and social systems that really existed in those times, making people believe that we actually have experienced ‘progress’ in today’s world, and that what we have today is much better than the awful ‘stone age’.

My source is basically from the The Ringing Cedars Series, but the information can be confirmed when reading ordinary historic documents, like the Bible’s Old Testament, in this light. And that’s the whole point of ‘historic research’, trying to see history in different types of ‘light’ and perspective, thus taking on a whole new meaning. What you are left with is what perspective feels right in your heart.

All societies might well have been like these Vedruss societies before religion, kings and kingdoms, borders and money came around and claimed the land for themselves and started taxing the ones who had lived there for millennia before. These were gift economies. What was needed of food and such was distributed freely, and handicrafts was used to make things that enhanced their lives, and these products were always given away.

And when everybody gave, they also got from each other, which of course sometimes for an outsider could be seen as trade. Still, it was no more trade than when someone brings a bottle of wine and a box of chocolates when invited to dinner by some friends. In that light, we still have a gift economy in parts of our society. We still give each other things and services a lot of  the time, even today.

So, you see, it is possible to have societies without money. Now, do we have to go back to these old times to do that? No, we don’t. And actually, we can’t. We’ve come too far in terms of development. We can of course take on elements of those societies, but that doesn’t mean we have to abandon everything we use today. Today we have the ingenuity, knowhow and technology to build a 100% sustainable and abundant society for everyone, with no one left out. Of course, everyone can not have 5 mansions, 3 islands, 10 SUVs, 6 jets and 2 helicopters each. Neither can everyone have gold plated toilets.

BUT, we can all have very high standard roof over our heads. We can all have unlimited transportation to wherever we want to go. And we can go wherever we want to go when all borders are wiped out. Borders that was economically drawn in the first place. We can all eat healthy, nutritious and good food, and so on and so on.

It becomes clearer and clearer to me. Unless this world shall revert back to the same old ‘financial crisis’ and inequality, pollution, over exploitation, etc. etc. we can not go on with any kind of monetary system. Of course, we can try. We can try and regulate more. We can try interest free economy. We can try all kinds of monetary systems. But unless we, the people, realize that money doesn’t matter, and realize this in our hearts, we will revert, revert, revert, and we will see no major change. We will still have those borders and passport controls. We will still have military and police. We will still have corruption and crime.

So, to everyone who is a part of the Occupy Wall Street movement, Occupy Together, or any other movement in that regards; Think about it.

Simply think.

Can we have a property- and moneyless society? How will it work?

But more importantly, think about you. Your self. Ask yourself this:

Will I be doing what I do today if I didn’t earn any money on it? 

What will I be doing if I didn’t have any monetary incentive? 

What would my incentive be? 

What is my life’s purpose? 

And then go on and try to think about the consequences of a society where buying and selling is abandoned, where we simply don’t trade anymore, but distribute the goods and services to each other for free, and do what we do for reasons of joy and companionship (which of course can include doing what ‘has to be done’).

A society where we can change the place of living as easy as the rich people today move from their condo in NYC to their house in Paris. It is mind-blowing. Our possibilities would be limitless when we abandon property and money and simply share and develop what we have in this world.

Would all the ‘needed tasks’ be done in a moneyless society? Quite clearly, the answer is NO. But, only when you look at the ‘needed tasks’ from a monetary perspective, from the perspective of today’s society.

All of what is needed today will clearly not be needed in a moneyless society. For example, today, 50% of all food is thrown away, and new food is shipped in every day from all around the world. Thus, when we really look at that particular area, it should be quite obvious that we can half the amount of trips the trucks take to the stores, as long as we actually eat all the food that is driven there, instead of throwing half of it away.

Voila, we’ve halved the need for transportation in one field in one swipe.

Even though this is but one small example, can you see how the ‘needed tasks’ would be much fewer and less frequent in a moneyless society? In one swoop, I think we could easily half or more all needed tasks that are performed in the world today. And then I’m not even counting in all the un needed tasks, such as all bank, insurance, financial, stock brokers, accountants and other ‘money related’ people, who would have to find new interests and would make up a huge new pool of people that can actually contribute to society.

Ok, but what about other jobs, like plumbers, dentists, doctors, etc. etc. Would they still do their ‘jobs’? I see only one answer to that; Ask them. Ask yourself. Are you a plumber? Or what are you? Would you still do what you do? Or what would you do?

If I was a dentist or a doctor and I liked what I was doing, I can’t see any reason why I would suddenly stop doing that, as long as there still was a need for my services. Personally, I would feel an obligation to help the ones in need. I think many doctors feel that as they work today as well. Still, again, in a moneyless society where we wouldn’t need half the people to do half the jobs (and that’s without changing anything, only abandoning money and property), there would be much more time to actually take care of each other.

Much more people could actually take time to help each other in all kinds of matters. Be it health, plumbing, teaching, massaging or what have you. And instead of ‘serving the system’, we would serve each other and society. No money filter between us. All tasks would be meaningful since they would actually be needed.

Possession vs. Property

I think many people start to shiver when they really go into the thought of not owning anything, and I understand them, as this thought has for millennia been equivalent with poverty and destitution.

That is when it is time to sense the distinction between property and possession. Property is, and has been the most important tool for the capitalistic socio-economic system to build itself up to what it is today. And today, the term property is almost synonymous with possession. Still, they are not one and the same. Far from it.

Even today, something that you don’t own can be in your possession. If you borrow a car, it is in your possession the time you use it. And you are not feeling any fear about loosing that possession, are you? No, you know you have borrowed that car for a certain amount of time, and as long as you have it, you have it. And when you’re done with it, you turn it back. The car was never your property, even though it was in your possession the whole time you were using it.

No insecurity there. Borrowing a car. The same, of course, goes for everything else in your life that you use and have use for. If you own an apartment today, and you live in that apartment, you obviously have use for that apartment, since you live there and possess it. It doesn’t really matter if the apartment is yours or not. You live there, thus it is your apartment. But again, it being your apartment, doesn’t have to mean that you need to own it.

So, in a property- and moneyless society, what would happen to everything that we today own? This is very easy to answer, when considering the above; If we possess it and have use for it, we would simply keep using it, and no one else could claim it (unless, maybe if you unrightfully stole it in the first place) until you leave it.

In a property- and moneyless society (maybe we shall start to call it PAMS…?) possession and usership would replace property and ownership. If you have use for something and need it, you can use it for as long as you need it, as long as it exists and is accessable.

It is actually how this work today as well, except that the terms ‘property’ and ‘ownership’ came in some millennia ago and changed the whole game. We can’t really own anything. We can only use it and possess it for a certain time. When that time is over, it is and can not be ours anymore. It is only the system that lives in our minds that grants anyone the right to ‘own’ anything.

It is only the MONETARY MINDSET that has prevailed for so long that has indoctrinated us into believing that we actually can own something.

And of course, this is very good for those who want to control the world.

So, as an end note, the secret….(whispered)…:

When we realize that we can’t own anything, not us, not the rich, not anyone, well then, the system that is in place today will simply seize to exist. It will vanish like the apparition it has always been. It can not control us anymore. Because, the only means it has ever had to control us, has all this time been our mindset.


Peter Joseph is articulating my point very well:

YouTube Preview Image


32 thoughts on “The Occupy Movement is worthless, unless…

  1. I’m absolutely in favor of a RBE, but like so many others, I wonder how to transition from what we have to the self-evident imperative of real sustainability without suffering the pain of an all-out economic and / or environmental collapse before we come to our collective senses.

    Inasmuch as we “modern” humans have so thoroughly adopted the notion of money, what if we (99%) came up with our own version of currency. After all, except for coinage, it’s only digits symbolized on special paper or stored electronically in special databases.

    It’s backed only by consensus. It’s created and distributed by rules established over time by a small number of folks that have skewed these rules to favor themselves and at the expense of others (99%) and our life-support mechanisms (the biosphere).

    Money as we know it is a top down thing. Government, war, money and education are top-down phenomena. Maybe what we need is a bottom-up version. Rock and Roll, Occupy and the Scientific Method are bottom up phenomena – there are plenty of other examples. These things were not legislated into being, yet each re-shaped our cultures broadly and profoundly. They came about because it was their time; and the technology was there to enable them. Consensus is a very powerful thing.

    Imagine a new digital currency and let’s say we call it eBucks (E$) where “E” stands for Earth. Maybe it could have a nickname too, something like coupins (YouTube “Bill White, Coupins”).

    Before I explain how I think it could work, let me digress with a simple equation (don’t worry, it really is simple and we all know it anyway).

    Let “V” stand for the stuff we value and “X” for the net environmental impact for us to have have it. Now let “R” stand for the earth’s recuperative capacity in dealing with our presence here. Finally, let “/\” (Greek delta) stand for “change”. “/\V” this is change in value or “value add” – making something more valuable than it was.

    Sustainability could be expressed then as /\V = (X – R).

    The left side of the equation taken over time is also known as productivity. Here in the USA we call it GDP, and it’s measured in dollars. We earn dollars by some combination of effort aimed at adding value to material resources, ideas or by some form of speculation (gambling).

    The right side of the equation is our net impact; damage done (X) minus the earths intrinsic resilience (R).

    If X = R then the right side of the equation goes to zero. The earth recovers from our presence at the same pace as we satisfy our needs and wants. If X > R, then we are in “overshoot”. From my research, our overshoot factor here in the USA is about 3x – 4x, that is, it would take 3 – 4 planets like this to support our rate of consumption.

    We fret over /\V because it’s the measure of health for our economy. We fret over the downside (X) too but not in the same context. So we are conflicted….we like the prosperity part but we don’t like the environmental impact part. Onward we plod, working to live while we also finance our servitude. We protest, sign petitions and worry. But I digress.

    Now, ore in the ground has value (V), but to make it fit for use we “add value” to it, hence the change symbol “/\”. The same goes for biomass. We compensate the butcher, baker and the candlestick maker for their value added contributions (/\V) but then leave Mother Earth to heal her wounds as best she can. Why? Because we externalize the true costs of our /\V. The cultural and environmental costs are not properly counted because there is no profit it that. It’s not just a capitalist thing or a communist thing or a socialist thing. Human collectives, however we label them tend to externalize their cost of living. The externalized costs have a name in the genre of economic studies; their name is “externalities” (Wikipedia explains it quite well).

    The system we could establish could mitigate that tendency if we COMPENSATE EFFORTS to reduce X and increase R with eBucks (E$). I’m saying that volunteers working in non-profit organizations (call them dot.orgs) should earn E$’s in accordance with their skill and time (skill-based volunteer compensation).

    Open an account for me in a cloud bank somewhere in cyberspace. Let Autonomous handle the code for the database (I trust them a hell of a lot more than bankers and corporate bosses anyway). I’ll volunteer my time and every skill at my command to offset X and help my planet heal (increase R). I’ll spread manure, I’ll build composting toilets, I’ll teach youngsters math, physics and engineering. I’ll help build homeless shelters and plant organic vegetables. I’m not so picky but I could also recruit more volunteers; whatever is the best use of my time.

    I will fill out my electronic forms and draw my pay in E$ (digits in my cloud account). I will keep a ledger of my earnings and have it authenticated weekly so my savings are not lost when Cyberspace collapses.

    I shall endeavor to measure and align my needs and wants (/\V) with my (X – R). I can make this personal. Or to use one of my favorite quotes from Lord Kelvin: “If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.”

    I can log my hours and take digital pictures of my work if you need a verifiable record. I believe in transparency in such matters and in recording verifiable evidence of all claims. You can train a supervisor to audit my work to keep me honest. You can audit him too, in fact you absolutely should. Cell phone and computer technologies can make for a very robust and transparent payment system if we apply them that way.

    But now, where to spend my eBucks a.k.a. coupins? To start, we go to merchants and every sort of service provider we need to do business with and ask for a discount. Pay part of their fee in $ and part in E$ (coupins). Maybe they’ll go for 99% dollars and 1% in eBucks (coupins) once they understand the logic and integrity behind the scheme. Coupins, after all are just universal coupons…hence the name.

    Next week maybe the price could be $95 / E$5 for the same $100 service; especially if we ask the merchant what he needs money for and provide the service he would have to pay retail for otherwise with qualified volunteers in our membership.

    The week after that the price goes to $90 / E$10, same deal. Later, the split is 80/20, 70/30 and so on. The merchant meanwhile has E$ in his own account and pitches the plan to his suppliers and service providers. Up the supply chain it goes, one provider to another. To trade in E$ is to support planetary caregivers ( volunteers) and the folks supporting them, and the folks supporting them, and so on.

    How would our local Chambers of Commerce take to the idea if we put it to them in the right way? I think we all have a little “let’s stick it to the man” in us – even local small business people.

    To trade in dollars and pay the built in taxes (including inflation, which is a tax imposed by the banking elite) is to subsidize elite bankers and the military industrial complex.

    To trade in coupins is to subsidize environmentalists and humanitarians.

    For those being paid in dollars to do these good works get eBucks IN ADDITION TO their present compensation. It is not illegal nor is it counterfeit currency. E$ are a simply a reward mechanism to recognize volunteerism and earth-friendly employment.

    And we can volunteer to do some amazing things if we choose to. In fact, I personally believe we can actually manage our own affairs without a government in it’s present form. We just need to rebuild our consensus machinery from the bottom up instead of the top down. Sorta like our founding fathers did only this time we don’t exclude black and brown people, females or people who don’t own land. The 99% is not such an exclusive club.

    Volunteerism displacing profiteering, one service at a time under the NGO umbrella. Tax exempt, optimally localized commerce. Here, there and everywhere. Globally.

    Like an outbreak of measles but instead of measles it’s a runaway outbreak of sanity.

    Folks can donate cars, appliances and household goods and get a receipt for tax exemptions like they do now from Goodwill Industries, the Salvation Army, etc. They can exchange dollars for coupins as with any other charitable contribution. These dollars are digits stored in banks and are spent judiciously and transparently on behalf of the Earth.

    Land itself can be donated to a non-profit ( can it not? National and state parks are top-down donations. Why can’t Occupy get permission to occupy land as responsible stewards of that land? Why can’t we re-populate the thousands of small dying farm communities and displace GMO’s with heirloom varieties?

    City folks can even donate their garbage and we’ll voluntarily break it down into elements as digestible by our Mother Earth as we know how, earning E$ while we do it. Zero waste everywhere as soon as we can mange to do it.

    There are devices out nowadays that plug into any cell phone to scan a magnetic strip on any credit card. We can print our own cards and encode our own information for E$ transactions. Digits go from one database into another.

    For monetary contributions, digits go from banking institutions to a cooperative cloud bank managed by people with integrity according to rules skewed to favor the Earth itself. Rules defined by humane earth advocates. Digits issued and managed by bottom feeders like me. And you. And her, and him. Citizens of the Earth. You get the idea.

    Folks can volunteer time and earn E$ whenever they want to regardless of their age, skin pigmentation or country of origin. Homeless and unemployed people are especially welcome. Our incumbent institutions are NOT getting to the root of these issues but we can. It’s a Golden Rule thing…like my parents taught me, not the “he who has the gold makes the rules” version, I mean the original. We can make rules too, and we can make them to align with the principles of the Free World Charter.


    This is different than Time Banking ( because it allows and accounts for transfer of (donated) material goods.

    It’s different than Goodwill Industries because instead of collecting and re-selling donated goods and coaching people through the conventional job search process, we collect and pass the donations on to folks that need them and recruit them as volunteers and pay them in E$….we help them go “off the grid” instead of throwing them back into the taxable, for-profit workforce.

    If we scale the idea up a bit it begins to look a little like FDR’s Civilian Conservation Corps back in the 1930’s except the folks manning the earth-healing camps are not restricted to young unemployed men being prepped for conscription into WWII. Imagine an army of volunteer-built robots rebuilding critter-friendly natural infrastructure everywhere Monsanto has has a GMO seedling. We can help heal the land.

    It’s also a bit like other digital alternative currencies except that E$ / coupins are specifically designed as a resource-based currency. Which, in my view is a logical but necessary precursor to a full-on RBE.

    (also see

    I know what your probably thinking; what happens when the power pyramid realizes that the bottom is falling out from under it’s revenue machinery? They’ll probably come at us with a lot more than pepper spray and night sticks. My main hope lies in our numbers and good behavior – it will be pretty hard to demonize volunteers acting on behalf of their fellows and nature itself, especially if there is a digital record of every brutal encounter uploaded on the web as they are nowadays.

    The stages of their reaction will be the proverbial five that we all recognize;
    1) Denial (this buys us time to get the plan working),
    2) Anger (this is the hard part – time to be fearless and persistent)
    3) Negotiation (this is where we say “no” to whatever they offer)
    4) Depression (this is when we tell them to cheer up and take a spin in the Lear jet)
    5) Acceptance (this is when we sign them up as volunteers – they are mammals too)

    This idea of a transitional resource-based currency has had me for a couple of years now. I gave up my notions of ownership of material goods in favor of a RBE.

    Even ideas themselves should be shared freely – I think the days of IP are numbered.

    It’s becoming an open source world folks – and that’s fine with me. Everything that can be digitized is getting cheaper and everything else is getting more expensive by the day.

    Somehow, we’ve got to keep the wheels on our old planet until we can make living here free – again. Sustainability could be fun, sexy and comfy if we put our heads to it. All we have to do is form a team, agree on a plan and show up on time – we’ve been doing that for years anyway.

    Final thought – this is a time of great change and among the possibilities is that of cataclysmic change and massive loss of human life in the next few years. But if I’m among those that don’t make it through the trials ahead, I’d at least like to go while doing my best stuff. Working toward a RBE and sustainable culture is my best stuff.

    Thanks for reading this.

    I am most grateful to have access to this forum and anxiously await all critical response.


    1. Hi there!

      I must say I really think you’re on to something there. A new currency linked to skills and volunteer time. I think it should have a more universal name, though, like ‘Kodak’. I doesn’t have to mean anything, only be easily pronounceable in all languages.

      We need some tools for this transition, and this might be one of them. We already have Bitcoins, but the only way to ‘earn’ bit coins is (or used to be) to do some ‘work’, called ‘mining’ on some websites. Now, with eBucks the work that we do can be volunteer time on actual projects. Much better.

      BTW, what you have written is an article in itself. I’d like to post it as that. If you email me at haraldsando att gmail dot com, I’ll open up registering on the site for you, so that you can contribute with articles, and the above comment can be your first. Will you do that? I’d appreciate it.

      Thank you!

  2. Everyone who reads this post should take into account that the author is not speaking of a sudden, gestalt change in society. This is too iealistic; it asks people to sacrifice their, “homeostasis”, driven feelings of structure. As the author stated the principle requirement for this concept to work is an adjustment of, “mindset”, I do not use the quotes flippantly but for emphasisl. We already know that changes in mental posture, attitude are probably the most difficult. It often requires some high-stress situation or tragedy to influence this alteration. Fear not however, such a situation is occuring as we speak, in the form of the worldwide monetary crises, as the writer mentioned. Probably the best thing that any of us can do is to give this presentation a sober in depth consideration. Thank you.

  3. You realize the Cedars books are fiction, right? I mean, you can take inspiration from fiction, but you seem to reference it as if it were real. It’s like reading the Lord of the Rings and thinking there’s a Middle Earth somewhere.
    I guess I can see the answer coming, “How do you know it’s not real? Historians?” and so on. So hey, who knows, maybe there was a Gandalf and a Sauron and our money based system has brainwashed us into not believing it. Maybe we can harness the power of the Ring in the RBS?

    1. There’s a similar comment below. What about some originality…?

      It really doesn’t matter if the Ringing Cedars books are fiction or not. What they are describing is highly relevant in today’s and tomorrow’s society. I am talking about inspiration here. Inspiration to how we can organize ourselves.

      If you find any inspiration in the Lord of The Rings relevant to our society, please bring it. Personally, I don’t.

      1. I like the idea of a powerful ring that can solve problems. We’re stuck in this Capitalist cycle of history where even Communism is a mockery. If we can find something, like Frodo found the ring, it will give us a goal to reach for, and when the Sauron/Bank/Military Industrial complex falls, we can all go back to the Shire and live life as it was meant to be.

  4. You do realize that the Cedars books are fiction, right? I mean, people have always taken inspiration from fiction, but it’s not a historical record, any more than the Lord of the Rings.
    Let me guess the answer, “Who told you that? Historians?” So, there’s no saying that Middle Earth and Gondor and Frodo weren’t real, either, right? Can’t we harness some of the lost magic of the Rings to help in the RBE struggle?

    1. “Imagination is more important than knowledge.”

      – Einstein

      And I agree completely. Without imagination we wouldn’t have ANY of the new inventions we enjoy today. Not one. Try to look at the Ringing Cedar books with your imagination. How they can relate to today (and they can, big time). If you can find anything relevant in Frodo and Sam’s story as well; bring it. But, I guess you can’t….

      Btw, have you even read and evaluated any of the Ringing books? No? Hm…thought so.

  5. This is some refreshing stuff! After breezing through pretty quickly, i’ve concluded that lots of like minds are experiencing the same struggle as i in the pursuit of just how to solve lots of really intractable problems. Many strongly agree with the postulate that money is bankrupt, so to speak, and it seems that no real historical direction exists as a template for the scale. Resource-based economy is one apparent imperative. Drastic shifting of consciousness among human beings is another, as some comments here addressing property use, personal liberty, and bureaucratic degradation of intent have hinted. I do hope we will work up the patience necessary to hold this discussion til the best end is attained, while proceeding with the haste due our precarious hold on viability here. Here’s one resource-based economic outline posited back a while in history: , a link to some current George economy supporters: , and my ongoing thoughts: . I’m glad to have stumbled across the conversation…i’ll be back!

  6. I 100% believe in RBE, but without prisons or police, how would we deal with people that are just plain phsycho? i get that alot of crime is because of scarsity, but some people do things for no reason ie rape,murder etc… so what we do? shun them? kill them? not that i agree with prisons or police, because even they’re on the stock exchange but, how would we handle that?

    1. Hello Michelle, I watched Zeitgeist Moving Forward, and the movie teached me a bit about that. TZM also think that most crime is only there becouse of scarsity, like you said. Of course I/WE wont kill them. The People will be educated year for year, that its not good, etc. in around 100 years, there shouldnt be phsycho killers. But what will be there I think will be people, that do crime becouse they are disabled or e.g were born with a damaged brain. I watched movies about that, about people that did just crime things becouse of that. But in most times, you can operate and help such people, trough medicine, etc. I´m sorry for my bad English. Thanks.

  7. I am totally on board with all of this and eerily have been independently having the same exact thought process especially about perception and humanity’s need to change its perception, or mindset, about things and about each other.

    Reality is literally as we create it to be.

    You know what was once the lowliest of professions? And not that long ago I don’t think. An actor. What a piece of crap an actor was. Back when surviving was more of an issue what did an actor contribute to society? They acted like other people. What the hell is that? The garbage man is more worthwhile. At least the garbage man actually does something. These days an actor is revered and a celebrity and rich. I understand why that is, but the point is the perception can change based on the needs. That’s the answer to the more mundane occupations that need to be done but may not be necessarily rewarding from a creative sense. They just need to be unabashedly appreciated. That’s what people want for payment more than anything anyway. Appreciation. So could the garbage man become a revered celebrated occupation full of pride and self-worth? Why not? Happened to an actor.

    Most material things and services can be worked out or figured out but I have had one resource hang-up I haven’t felt like I have a solution for….land. How do you deal with the “ownership” or “usership” of land? I want this piece of land to be a motocross track, somebody else wants it build factories/distribution centers (the new store), somebody else want to build a house or houses, somebody else wants to farm it.

    To the author… do you think we handle land and its uses?

    1. Well, usership will work with land as with everything else. That’s how I see it.

      In an RBE world we have to agree upon the uses of stuff, including land. Some kind of a direct democracy will be best for this. A democracy where we vote upon suggestions for use.

      In addition the usage of the land will be a technological and environmental question. For instance, we won’t cut down the rainforest to grow soy bean crops or as pasture land to feed cattle, like it is today, because of it’s detrimental environmental effects.

      Another example is a factory of some kind. Whether it is built is determined on what use there is for it, and where it is built is selected on where the best place would be, all factors taken into concern.

      Something else, like an amusement park, or whatever will go to voting to determine if the community really want it and need it. Here also, will of course both local and global environmental concerns be taken into account.

      When there’s no money, trading and ownership anymore, we will for the first time in millennia be able to plan together as a whole people what our world will look like. When we can do things, not out of egotistical profit, but out of a common need, we can create what really work for both our selves and the planet as a whole.

      Even today, my friend, it is not only profit motives that rules. Yes, the profit motive devastates a lot of land around the world, but still, there are natural reserves and still some land that is decided upon commonly. In RBE ALL land will be decided upon commonly.

      Transition wise, I picture that land that is used now in an environmentally unfriendly way will changed based on scientific sustainable principles.

      If you have a farm that you would like to keep and live on, you can do that, but the use of the farmland itself will be taken into consideration in the community. If your farm is 100 hectare, but only 10 of those are really needed to grow on, a return to pasture land or forest could be considered for the rest, unless something else is needed and suggested there.

      It all relies on what people want, need and suggest. After that we use the scientific method combined with voting and consensus to make decisions.

  8. I’m not sure if this is a response or another article.

    I find it strange that everyone only talks about historical cultures which had a resource-based economy, or gift economy. There are many, many smaller cultures still existing all over the world where people still live in this way.

    I lived for a time in a small Fijian village. Property and ownership for Fijians is a somewhat alien concept. They manage some degree of monetary activity, to get things they like such as toxic junk food imported by white people, and pirated DVDs. The colonial British introduced enough capitalism that there are (commonly ignored) laws about property and theft, but when it comes to day-to-day life in the village, there is basically a social taboo against refusing any material request.

    If you say to your Fijian Friend, “Hey, Lindua, that’s a nice television you have”, he will feel compelled to give it to you as a gift. Their value of sharing is very very deeply socially conditioned. And when one of them walked off with my nice sunglasses, he didn’t feel like he was stealing at all. He just thought they looked cool on me so he decided to share them. And maybe he would share them with somebody else later. Our concept of “theft” seems as strange to them as compulsory sharing seems to us.

    My experience with this still-relatively-traditional culture suggests a few things that seem widely ignored in discussions about bringing fundamental change to our monetary culture:

    1. Resource-based economies have always been small, because they operate based on family connections, and obvious mutual dependence. In a traditional culture, probably everyone you see on a daily basis is either close family or a distant relative. You can’t move to far off places, because that would mean leaving EVERYTHING you know.

    2. Resource-based economies have always been based on the deep social conditioning of an ancient tradition, religion, and superstition, i.e., “You will not break the rules, or the spirits will come kill you, it totally happened to that guy my friend knows, last year”.

    3. The money system is what makes people work hard. People in sharing societies are notoriously lazy, by “civilized” standards. PLEASE don’t take this the wrong way, this is not intended to be a criticism of sharing cultures — I’m just pointing out that you may like the idea of a sharing culture as much as I do — but try living in one and see what you learn. It’ll drive you nuts that you can’t get anything done, and you can’t keep any of your stuff. The only solution is to not have anything, which Fijians are naturally good at.

    Westerners in Fiji are, in my experience, universally frustrated by the near-absent work ethic among the indigenous Fijians, despite the obvious fact that most Fijians are WAY happier than average Americans. We’re just used to getting things done. Even the most laid back American hippy will feel like a total uptight neurotic among Fijians. And the hippy will REFUSE to let that uptightness go, because culture goes deep.

    4. Money is the symbol of value, not an abstraction of resources. Value is not inherent in resources, so people will always find it necessary to symbolise value to each other to facilitate exchanges of resources in large-scale society. And there is too much unpleasant work required to maintain a city. Nobody wants to do it.

    So, in summary, I think resource-based economy is a pipe dream unless we can manifest it to a small extent in the context of small-scale community within cities, as a sort of two-tier economy: A larger monetary economy, and a small-scale economy of intimate exchange within smaller social groups. Even this will be a great challenge however, because modern people mostly don’t stay in any place long enough for these communities to really develop.

    Am I wrong?

    1. Thank you for a sound comment!

      The Fiji info was very good to get. Actually, I was there myself once, but guess I didn’t get that close to the local community to see the gift economy in praxis.

      Will RBE work on a global scale…? Is it more realistic with a monetary economy globally, and RBE locally…? I don’t know. I think anything can happen. For sure, we can’t have the same type of global economy that we have today, since it is about to collapse totally. So, something new have to be developed. At the same time, there already are several global ‘gift economies’. I am thinking of Wikipedia, free software, free books, free workers (volunteers), free food (from aid organizations), and so on.

      For sure, a local RBE is easier to manage than a global one. And that it is tightly connected with our innate culture is certain. Still, there are hundreds of thousands of people in the western world now that ‘go RBE’, in spite of the culture around them.

      Actually, when it comes to the laziness, that might be so in Fiji and other small existing gift economies around the world. But I don’t think RBE/gift economy have to equal laziness. Far from it. I think we definitely can have RBE without people becoming lazy. I don’t think it is money that make people work. Sure, money makes people do a lot of things the really don’t want to do, because they need money. That’s how we have all these big corporations with people doing pretty meaningless work, only serving the system.

      When we can do work that actually serves ourselves and the community, I know I for sure will not be lazy. I might not get up at 6 every morning to work 10 hours every day, or then again, I might, if it is something that interests me and where I get a feeling of community, collaboration and real purpose.

      We are after all talking about a shift in the mindset of people here. There will never be a resource based economy anywhere on the planet, neither locally or globally, if people doesn’t wake up and change their minds. So, this change of mind is required for RBE. And, when people has changed their minds, RBE should function just as good globally as locally.

  9. Interesting ideas, but just not going to happen.

    Just taking myself as an example. I’ve worked really hard, saved for over a decade and put off having kids so I could get ahead, and now have a small farm that I’m converting to organic.

    Would I want to stop owning it, trusting that the collective would still want organic, and not convert it right back again? I’m planting native trees and using permaculture principles, but the collective probably wouldn’t see any value in that – they’re not common ideas.

    The likely scenario would be all my trees and hard working of planting would be levelled, and my property used for sheep, or cut into 500 m2 allotments and concreted into foundations for more suburbs (we’re quite close to town, and farmers in this area are making lots of money selling their land into small sections for development).

    Then there’s the simple fact that I want to pass my land on to my son, who I know will look after my autistic daughter, and make sure she lives well. Can I guarantee a collective would do that? Every collective government I’ve seen puts people like my daughter in homes, where they are treated as sub-human.

    Sorry, but I absolutely am a civil libertarian. I stand by the 99% who are protesting right now, and believe the system is corrupt, but do not believe that the remove of ownership and markets is the answer, If I were going to suggest some solutions I might suggest:

    – the end of television. It junks people’s brains, and renders them unable to think for themselves

    – the end of “free trade” which is a misnomer for “lowest paid worker in the world loses” – and everyone else, except the company owners – loses too. A return to protectionist policies and local production, and self-reliance of countries, reduction of international trade

    – ending the US federal reserve. Yes, the US would go bankrupt, and about time they were honest about it too!

    – the end of food taxation. I see people in my local area – a food growing area – paying nearly $20 / kg for lamb, in an area swimming in sheep! Insane.

    That’s a few suggestions 🙂

    Thanks for a thoughtful article, and a good read, but I respectfully disagree completely with it!

    Cheers from New Zealand.

    1. Hi there, Leanne. Well, it’s not just this article that you should read, obviously. You have got all of this somewhat backwards. We are talking about a world of GIVING and USERSHIP. Do you have any clue about what this means at all? In this world, ALL OF US would convert into this ‘system’ and mindset. We are not talking about an organic farm here and there.

      Usership means that you use and have access to what you use as long as you use it and have need for it. This of course means that if you have ‘your’ farm, it is ‘yours’ as long as you have use for it. And if your son has use for it as well, well, then it is ‘his’ as long as he has use for it. If he abandons it, on the other hand, then there’s no point of this farm just lying there, now is it?

      We need to MAKE these ideas the COMMON IDEAS! That’s what we’re doing here. Spreading understanding.

      There are hundreds of thousand, if not millions, of people in the world now that are into these ideas. Have you heard about The Zeitgeist Movement…? What we all want is of course to reach critical mass, so that EVERYONE adopts these ideas. That’s the whole point of this blog. To inform and spread the word. A resource based economy is after all in everyone’s interest.

      We can all have permaculture farms and live in peace and harmony.

      Your help is appreciated. What you are doing is fantastic, in terms of ‘going back to nature’ and growing your own food etc. This is what we all need, and we need to spread this information.

      In the world we are talking about you and your son could live anywhere you want, travel anywhere you want, do whatever you want. We are talking about a TOTALLY FREE WORLD FOR EVERYONE. Don’t you want that?

      When we don’t have money and ownership, we could concentrate on creating the best world for EVERYONE. Build efficient and 110% ecological housing, construct clean cars, use clean energy, develop inventions that WORK.

      When we are not slaves to the profit motive anymore, we can actually do stuff that works for society, for this planet, for our friends and family. Don’t you get that?

      Don’t you get that it is THE PROFIT MOTIVE that is at cause in all that you are complaining about in your comment?

      The ‘junk’ you see on television is there because they need to SELL SELL SELL and make a PROFIT.

      The ‘free trade’ you are talking about it there for PROFIT.

      The US Federal Reserve is there for PROFIT.

      Food taxation is there for PROFIT and control.

      Why do you think the meat is expensive? PROFIT!!

      The big corporations that control the world today are there for PROFIT.

      Every job that is taken by someone is taken for PROFIT.

      Every good invention that is outcompete by not so good inventions are outcompete by PROFIT.

      In a world where we don’t have a profit motive, don’t sell each other anything, don’t trade anything, don’t hoard anything and don’t compete about resources, we could:

      Take real care of each other.

      Develop the best inventions that really work.

      Take true care of the environment.

      Feed everyone on this planet.

      Abandon borders.

      Abandon military.

      Abandon police.

      Abandon money, banks, taxation, insurance, and everything that’s related to money.

      We could create a world that works for everyone.

      The only thing that is stopping us is the fucked up mindset that people have. I had a fucked up mindset too. I too could not imagine a moneyless world. Until it suddenly dawned on me.

      It is not easy to imagine how it can be, but I think it is worth trying.

  10. This is an interesting concept. I just heard about this a few days ago. I googled it and your blog came up. Very well explained. I need to do more reading on it before I am for it or against it. But it sounds like a good idea.

  11. I must firstly say that I stand 100% behind the need to move to a Resource based economy, but I’d love to seem some genuine historic evidence for the Vedruss please. You mention the Old Testament as an historic source, but don’t give quotes. You are also making a massive leap of faith (sic) by referring to the Old Testament as an historic record. There are some truths in it, but much is false.

    When you say “Today, both historians and many other scientists and researchers agree that ‘history’ is not a static, but rather a dynamic, phenomena, changing in regards to both what you focus on, how you interpret findings and new information that comes up that for different reasons have been hidden before.” This sounds very much like a variation on religion’s argument against Science providing ‘truth’. In both cases the reality is that human knowledge is largely ‘built on’ and not ‘turned on it’s head’, or ‘thrown out’, by new discoveries.

    Myth is a useful medium for communicating wisdom, but it needs to be understood as myth, or no doubt, as in many cases before, a religion will sprout up around it and before we know it people will be worshipping the holy prophet Anastasia.

    I think a practical, rational, scientific approach to a transition to RBE is the way to go. This is best achieved by education based on facts.

    1. There are so many uneducated irrational comments, so I thank you for giving a more educated and rational one.

      I agree completely with what you say about the need to verify sources. When it comes to Anastasia, I put more emphasis on the actual information in the books and what that information entails, how it seems rational and logical and also how it resonates in me, which is a profound resonance. Hehe…funny you should mention an ‘Anastasia religion’, since I thought those same words yesterday. Still, Anastasia provides no dogmas or ‘rules’ for living, but only her points of view and advice. So, if any ‘religion’ where to be made out of what she say’s, it would have to be the people who ‘follows her’ that creates this religion, not her.

      I think the best is to read the Anastasia books oneself and make ones own judgements. Personally, I agree in most of the things she say’s, even though many of them are impossible or very difficult to practice in todays artificial world far from nature as we have become. A stronger connection to nature and each other is in any case very welcomed by me. In any case, I view the information in the Anastasia books as very valuable and everyone should become accustomed with that information. Not only does it resonate and seem logical, much of is is also testable scientifically. So, go ahead and study Anastasia and test what she says, of that what is testable. Historical references should be researched, not only from the Bible of course, but all available sources. I don’t have the capacity to do all this myself, neither is it my job. There should me more than enough people on this planet with interest in this to perform the necessary research.

      One must also keep in mind that a ‘practical, rational, scientific approach to a transition to RBE’ must not forget to take into account what people really WANT and need. If one group of people puts in place a new system that is affecting everyone without everyones consent, well, then we haven’t really gotten any further than what we have today, only with a different system, no matter how ‘good’ that system is supposed to be.

  12. This cannot work large scale without massive automation of labor (or some powerful miliary-like authority compelling people to provide what is needed even if they would prefer to do something else) because the jobs that people want to do and enjoy will not map well with what a large scale society needs. I am sure you would have plenty of people who would love to do interesting or emotionally rewarding work but much less would want to do boring, thankless or repetitive work long term. Some people would, but not enough.

    1. Just out of curiosity, what rank is my ‘muse’? What MOS does my ‘muse’ hold? I make music and give the tracks away for free, and I have only been able to produce as much music as I have because I am no longer tied to the military.

      Music is my thing, if you will, but I have met plenty of people that enjoyed other activities, such as research, construction, farming, and the like. While you not find such work interesting, many others do. There is no need for a military to force people to work. No one need crack the whip, so to speak, to convince people to work on what THEY enjoy.

      Different people enjoy different activities. The idea that what you hate doing is what everyone hates doing, is merely projection.

  13. Hi. I have only read the first book of the ringing cedars series.

    This book is a fiction is it not? A fiction story written by an author who has imagination and good ideas.

    The figure called Anastasia is a fantasy figure?

    There are some interesting concepts within it. Which I have used.

  14. I really appreciate the effort you put into your post and the ideas you are helping to spread. It is true that we did not always work with a monetary system but is it not an issue that a gift economy would just be too simple in the light of the horrible complexity we have allowed? There will be a transitional period, whatever system we choose to adopt, so should we do something to ease this transition or just go straight into it? Is a market economy necessarily a bad thing? I think people will go through a period of shock, this whole process is already traumatic; from those unfortunates who have been killed during protests to those who are being arrested for closing their bank accounts… whatever we do, I think it is important to avoid alienating anyone in this process. But I thank you again for putting forward your ideas and look forward to exchanging more. Blessed be!

    1. Thank you. Well, I see it as obvious that there will be a transition. I don’t expect that ‘tomorrow everyone will abandon money’. 😉 Of course not. I exaggerate to make a point.

      ‘Is a market economy really a bad thing’….? Hm….when you ask this question, I must reply that you can’t have read much of this blog, neither studied much of what are the causes behind the problems of the world today, with cyclical consumption creating massive amounts of waste, exploiting underpaid workers, unemployment, extreme inequality, poverty, famine, pollution, war, borders, excessive security, police violence, but to mention only a few of the effects of the monetary system and a market economy, where we all have to constantly compete with each other instead of collaborate, where meaningless amounts of useless products are constantly polluting our world, together with extreme advertising and sales methods, only to make you buy something that you don’t need. So, is market economy a bad thing…? You judge for yourself. 🙂

  15. You describe the usership society well. Nevertheless I do not believe that monetary economy can be simply abandoned overnight. I think there has to be some intermediate period.

    Capitalism once took the rule of Law provided by feudals and subjugated it to the interests of capital. There was a revolution before of which Money served the Law and after which Law served the Money. Capitalism did not just abolish the logic of “violence monopoly”. It just took it and made it serve its interests – and thus modern state was born with its violence apparatus, checks and balances. And this is when the triumph of Money over rule of Law became complete – it did not “run away” from it, it took it and made it serve its interests.

    It seems to me that society of dynamic usership you describe could similarily take the monetary apparatus and make it serve its interests. Money, instead of becoming a factor determining every factor of human life would become merely one of the tools for maintaining, upgrading and developing the Network of Things for the free use of the larger society, at least in the intermediate period.

    And this would be the complete triumph of Usership over Money – people do not just abandon it, its there but has no power over them. This has never happened before because such a dynamic system of capital usership was simply not possible before the advent of modern ICT.

    Of course, its just how I personally feel about it right now.

  16. I normally really enjoy your posts, but this surprised me “Human resources was used to do the planting, the natural resources of food was harvested and distributed to those who needed it”

    This is just not true. Humans have always historically fought over the use and consumption of resources. Hunter gatherers provided food to themselves and their family but it wasn’t shared willy nilly with who ever needed it. An unfortunate side effect of evolution, the strongest survived. With co-operation came trade.

    1. Who told you that? Historians…? 😉 Well, history is up for discussion, my friend. Today, both historians and many other scientists and researchers agree that ‘history’ is not a static, but rather a dynamic, phenomena, changing in regards to both what you focus on, how you interpret findings and new information that comes up that for different reasons have been hidden before.

      What I am referring to when I say this, is the VEDRUSS people described in the books of Vladimir Megre about the russian recluse, Anastasia. Anastasia claim do be the direct decedent of an ancient group of people, called the vedruss. They spanned the earth and had thousands of settlements in many places on the globe, but particularly in Russia.

      In contrary to ‘common history’, they were not hunter gatherers only, but also ‘helped’ the earth produce what they needed from it and created beautiful gardens for themselves. Gardens that also provided food, much like what we today would call ‘permaculture food forests’. They lived in highly developed societies with lots of celebrations and festivities, sharing of all of the natural abundance around them. And if a traveller came along, it would be considered an honor to take care of that person or persons. A great generosity and hospitality was the norm.

      They were also highly skilled craftspeople living in wooden timber houses with detailed ornamentations and decorations. They also made clothes both of natural fibers from plants and from animal skins. Though, only from skin of naturally dead animals. They were mostly vegetarians and meat was eaten only in small amounts.

      Everything that they produced was mostly given away. Sometimes they got something back for what they gave, as a natural reciprocity. The bonds between people was strong and gifts were given frequently in joy.

      All of the above can be confirmed from studies of ancient Russian history.

      I would believe that the indians of America lived much like that, as well as several other people around the world.

      This history has be very distorted, though, by the ‘men behind the curtain’, making the ‘stone age man’ seem like a savage barbarian, which couldn’t be further from the truth. The term ‘stone age’ is also used to blur the values and social systems that really existed in those times, making people believe that we actually have experienced ‘progress’ in today’s world, and that what we have today is much better than the awful ‘stone age’.

      My source is basically from the The Ringing Cedars Series, but the information can be confirmed when reading ordinary historic documents, like the Bible’s Old Testament in this light. And that’s the whole point of ‘historic research’, trying to see history in different types of ‘light’ and perspective, thus taking on a whole new meaning.

      What you are left with is what perspective feels right in your heart.

  17. This comment is spot on! Thank you for clarifying this for us. I pray the world will accept this fact and move on. It will happen sooner or later, and I pray sooner! HUGS, Sequoia Elisabeth

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